Hi, Yes, it'll be great to have an "official" voice for OSM in Switzerland. We can use it to contact partners to include data in OSM.
Good news, the Via Francigena is completed for the Swiss part have a look at : http://hiking.lonvia.de/fr/relation/124582 more informations : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Via_Romea_Francigena GPX file from Lonvia : http://hiking.lonvia.de/fr/routebrowser/124582/gpx
I have a question. I checked the Swiss Via Francigena part with the relation analyzer: http://analyser.openstreetmap.fr/cgi-bin/index.py I had some errors on places and parking. To remove this error, I had to create a way through the place instead of adding the entire place. Exemple : Place de la navigation in Lausanne (I added the grey line)
Do you think it's the correct way to do that ?
Bonne journée Pierre-André
Am 30.06.2011 16:46, schrieb inetis - Pierre-André Vullioud:
Hi, Yes, it'll be great to have an "official" voice for OSM in Switzerland. We can use it to contact partners to include data in OSM
[I'm actually an avid import hater, but that's a different topic]
I'm working on draft articles of association.
These will be in German but based on the template from kmu.admin.ch, which means that we can use the French (and potentially Italian) templates for translations in the respective languages.
Why not English? While I believe it is possible to have English AoA, you must provide a certified translation to the trade registry, if and when we want to register the association (is not strictly necessary, but we may want to so anyway).
Naturally, just to make things difficult, the OSMF expect certified translations in English from their local chapters :-) But I would rather negotiate with the OSMF than the trade registry. If anybody has a better idea please pipe up!
Major points open for discussion (besides the purpose clause)
+ name: OpenStreetMap Switzerland, other suggestions? Note: using Switzerland or similar may lead to some minor difficulties.
+ classes of membership: individual, company? Any other (non-voting membership for example)?
+ founding procedure: I'm all for a quick and dirty solution: at the next best opportunity found the association with a "temporary" board and start attracting members, then later in the year, have a general meeting and elect the "real" board (old board steps down). This has the advantage that more people can participate and we may be able to have some kind of electronic vote (has to be investigated). The alternative is to have a meeting in Berne with as many participants as possible.
+ membership fees: it is no longer necessary to explicitly state the membership dues in the AoA to avoid liability problems. With other words this can be decided at the founding meeting and changed at later AGMs without going through the hassle of changing the AoA. I would suggest 12 CHF/year for individual members.
Simon
As I'm working as well on articles of association (aka bylaws) for an other F/OSS project here in Switzerland, the stuff of Wikimedia CH association was quite useful to me:
* http://www.wikimedia.ch/The_Association ** http://www.wikimedia.ch/Bylaws * http://www.wikimedia.ch/Donate ** http://www.wikimedia.ch/Tax (tax deductibility)
Pros of these mentioned pages and wiki in general: * No need to invent the wheel, it's square :-) (objectives of associations are more or less the same, just some details may differ) * 4 languages (just need to define the legally ruling language, e.g. Swiss German language, others define as "informal" or "for better understanding") * Public debate possible on talk pages of wiki
Just my 2 cents!
Andreas aka hugi
Example extract of my English wiki page: == Introduction == Following draft is based up: KMU portal of the office of the secretary of state for economics SECO, column KMU topics association - [http://www.kmu.admin.ch/themen/00614/00656/00690/index.html?lang=de Verein - Musterstatuten für Verein] (German language only, sorry :-( ).
'''You are cordially invited for cooperation. :-)'''
'''Note: This wiki page is based onto German language version!''' - This exception is due to the fact, that English is in Switzerland not an official language of the Swiss Administration.
== Articles of association == '''XYZ association''' in [Place]
== Art. 1 - Name, registered offices and business year == # Under the name "'''XYZ association'''" - referred to hereafter as "Association" - exists an Association, established as legal entity according to Swiss law, [http://www.admin.ch/ch/e/rs/210/indexni2.html#id-ni2-ni6-ni8 Swiss Civil Code, Art. 60 et seqq.].
The wikimedia by-laws are definitely too complicated (there are far better examples for example /ch/open, however all of these have the basic problem that you have to assume that they are copyrighted).
As I wrote, I'm basing the draft on the kmu.admin.ch templates with minimal changes, the templates are up date (include the 2005 OR changes) and are really simple.
Simon
Am 02.07.2011 17:01, schrieb Andreas Bürki:
As I'm working as well on articles of association (aka bylaws) for an other F/OSS project here in Switzerland, the stuff of Wikimedia CH association was quite useful to me:
** http://www.wikimedia.ch/Bylaws
** http://www.wikimedia.ch/Tax (tax deductibility)
Pros of these mentioned pages and wiki in general:
- No need to invent the wheel, it's square :-) (objectives of
associations are more or less the same, just some details may differ)
- 4 languages (just need to define the legally ruling language, e.g.
Swiss German language, others define as "informal" or "for better understanding")
- Public debate possible on talk pages of wiki
Just my 2 cents!
Andreas aka hugi
Example extract of my English wiki page: == Introduction == Following draft is based up: KMU portal of the office of the secretary of state for economics SECO, column KMU topics association - [http://www.kmu.admin.ch/themen/00614/00656/00690/index.html?lang=de Verein - Musterstatuten für Verein] (German language only, sorry :-( ).
'''You are cordially invited for cooperation. :-)'''
'''Note: This wiki page is based onto German language version!''' - This exception is due to the fact, that English is in Switzerland not an official language of the Swiss Administration.
== Articles of association == '''XYZ association''' in [Place]
== Art. 1 - Name, registered offices and business year == # Under the name "'''XYZ association'''" - referred to hereafter as "Association" - exists an Association, established as legal entity according to Swiss law, [http://www.admin.ch/ch/e/rs/210/indexni2.html#id-ni2-ni6-ni8 Swiss Civil Code, Art. 60 et seqq.].
Am 02.07.2011 18:28, schrieb Simon Poole:
The wikimedia by-laws are definitely too complicated
That's your personal opinion. I don't think so. - General note: The more precise articles of association are, the less discussion and misunderstanding occur.
(there are far better examples for example /ch/open
Disagree as well on that one. IMHO they should mention registered office and business year, just as simple examples.
however all of these have the basic problem that you have to assume that they are copyrighted).
Of course you can't just copy &paste . Thus, you approach to take the kmu.admin.ch proposal seems reasonable. And, at the very end of the day, it has to be in line with Swiss Civil Code, Art. 60 et seqq ( http://www.admin.ch/ch/e/rs/210/indexni2.html#id-ni2-ni6-ni8 and for German language speakers: ZGB, Art. 60 ff -> http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/210/index1.html#id-1-2-2 ). only.
As I wrote, I'm basing the draft on the kmu.admin.ch templates with minimal changes, the templates are up date (include the 2005 OR changes) and are really simple.
Could you point us to the web site your proposal is under way? Thus, we all might give our inputs and thoughts.
Anyhow, thx for your efforts. :-)
cheeerio, hugi
Simon
Am 02.07.2011 17:01, schrieb Andreas Bürki:
As I'm working as well on articles of association (aka bylaws) for an other F/OSS project here in Switzerland, the stuff of Wikimedia CH association was quite useful to me:
** http://www.wikimedia.ch/Bylaws
** http://www.wikimedia.ch/Tax (tax deductibility)
Pros of these mentioned pages and wiki in general:
- No need to invent the wheel, it's square :-) (objectives of
associations are more or less the same, just some details may differ)
- 4 languages (just need to define the legally ruling language, e.g.
Swiss German language, others define as "informal" or "for better understanding")
- Public debate possible on talk pages of wiki
Just my 2 cents!
Andreas aka hugi
Example extract of my English wiki page: == Introduction == Following draft is based up: KMU portal of the office of the secretary of state for economics SECO, column KMU topics association - [http://www.kmu.admin.ch/themen/00614/00656/00690/index.html?lang=de Verein - Musterstatuten für Verein] (German language only, sorry :-( ).
'''You are cordially invited for cooperation. :-)'''
'''Note: This wiki page is based onto German language version!''' - This exception is due to the fact, that English is in Switzerland not an official language of the Swiss Administration.
== Articles of association == '''XYZ association''' in [Place]
== Art. 1 - Name, registered offices and business year == # Under the name "'''XYZ association'''" - referred to hereafter as "Association" - exists an Association, established as legal entity according to Swiss law, [http://www.admin.ch/ch/e/rs/210/indexni2.html#id-ni2-ni6-ni8 Swiss Civil Code, Art. 60 et seqq.].
Am 02.07.2011 20:06, schrieb Andreas Bürki:
Am 02.07.2011 18:28, schrieb Simon Poole:
The wikimedia by-laws are definitely too complicated
That's your personal opinion. I don't think so. - General note: The more precise articles of association are, the less discussion and misunderstanding occur.
The wikimedia bylaws introduce a number of concepts not required by law, and restate a lot of things that are -already- completely satisfactory defined in law.
If I could wager a bet, I would put my money on that the articles were either wrote by a lawyer with anglo-saxon background or to satisfy one.
(there are far better examples for example /ch/open
Disagree as well on that one. IMHO they should mention registered office and business year, just as simple examples.
They do state the business year and it is completely legal not to state a place of business. If it has no undesirable consequences (I can't think of any at the current time) it avoids having to have a general assembly and change the bylaws every time the kind soul who does the administration moves.
Anyway my proposal is here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Draft_Bylaws_Swiss_OSM_Association_-_Germ...
Simon
Simon,
do you have an English translation (or French, if that is what you can get from the KMU portal)? Resp. should somebody else take care of that? German isn't really well understood further West. And I think it is really important that we do that together.
Otherwise, looks good to me.
Sarah
On Mon, Jul 04, 2011 at 10:52:59PM +0200, Simon Poole wrote:
Am 02.07.2011 20:06, schrieb Andreas Bürki:
Am 02.07.2011 18:28, schrieb Simon Poole:
The wikimedia by-laws are definitely too complicated
That's your personal opinion. I don't think so. - General note: The more precise articles of association are, the less discussion and misunderstanding occur.
The wikimedia bylaws introduce a number of concepts not required by law, and restate a lot of things that are -already- completely satisfactory defined in law.
If I could wager a bet, I would put my money on that the articles were either wrote by a lawyer with anglo-saxon background or to satisfy one.
(there are far better examples for example /ch/open
Disagree as well on that one. IMHO they should mention registered office and business year, just as simple examples.
They do state the business year and it is completely legal not to state a place of business. If it has no undesirable consequences (I can't think of any at the current time) it avoids having to have a general assembly and change the bylaws every time the kind soul who does the administration moves.
Anyway my proposal is here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Draft_Bylaws_Swiss_OSM_Association_-_Germ...
Simon
talk-ch mailing list talk-ch@openstreetmap.ch http://lists.openstreetmap.ch/mailman/listinfo/talk-ch
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 04:46:28PM +0200, inetis - Pierre-André Vullioud wrote:
Hi, Yes, it'll be great to have an "official" voice for OSM in Switzerland. We can use it to contact partners to include data in OSM.
Good news, the Via Francigena is completed for the Swiss part have a look at : http://hiking.lonvia.de/fr/relation/124582 more informations : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Via_Romea_Francigena GPX file from Lonvia : http://hiking.lonvia.de/fr/routebrowser/124582/gpx
Very nice, I used the relation a lot during the development of the hiking map... and I see that there is still a bug with superrelations in Montagny. I'll have a look at that later. ( http://hiking.lonvia.de/relation/371559?zoom=15&lat=46.79562&lon=6.6... )
I have a question. I checked the Swiss Via Francigena part with the relation analyzer: http://analyser.openstreetmap.fr/cgi-bin/index.py I had some errors on places and parking. To remove this error, I had to create a way through the place instead of adding the entire place. Exemple : Place de la navigation in Lausanne (I added the grey line)
Do you think it's the correct way to do that ?
As with everything in OSM, the answer is: there is not only one correct way.
There is the one fraction which says that you should not add ways where there are none in reality. Then there is the other fraction that insists that routing only works properly if there is such an invisible way.
In practise, routers should be fine if you add the complete place to a route as long as you make sure that the outgoing ways are connected to the outline of the place. It might route you along the boundaries of the place which is still fine. Putting the place in the relation is certainly no error.
On the other hand, adding this additional way will also not hurt. So, just leave it as is. It's fine, too.
Personally, I tend to put places entirely into the relation. In parking lots, I generally add the ways where the cars can drive as highway=service and use those for the hiking route.
Gruss
Sarah
-
Andreas Bürki -
inetis - Pierre-André Vullioud -
Sarah Hoffmann -
Simon Poole