Since the beginning of this year Switzerland so called "Velostrassen" are a thing, these are simply streets in 30km/h zones with priority for bicycles instead of the right before left regime in such zones.
This is at least similar to the situation in Belgium (legally) and some other countries (informally) where similar concepts exist, in BE, NL and so on such streets are tagged with cyclestreet=yes.
This is however different to the German concept of "Fahrradstrassen" which are wider bicycle paths on which pedestrian use is allowed and you have to ride on the right (with other words essentially a normal "Veloweg" in Switzerland). "Fahrradstrassen" are tagged with bicycle_road=yes and IMHO that should always be on a highway=cycleway.
I would suggest that in Switzerland we should use cyclestreet=yes as this models the legal situation here better than the German bicycle_road=yes and would document that in the wiki in the appropriate places if there is no big protest.
Further I've noticed that there is small number of uses of bicycle_road in Switzerland (http://overpass-turbo.osm.ch/?q=LyoKVGhpcyBoYcSGYmVlbiBnxI1lcmF0ZWQgYnkgdGhl...) that I suspect are either actually a Velostrasse or are mistagged due to an issue with the JOSM preset for bicycle road that might have been used outside of DE. These should naturally be checked and changed to cyclestreet=yes if we have a consensus on the matter.
Simon
Hi Simon
I do not agree with you. In Germany a Fahrradstrasse (bicycle_road) is a street where bicycles have the priority. Normaly it is a highway=residential. Cars normaly are allowed. Some rare exceptions exist. Speed limit is not signed out but as far as I learned it is 30km/h. Pedestrians are not allowed.
Urs
Am 6. September 2021 10:38:16 MESZ schrieb Simon Poole simon@poole.ch:
Since the beginning of this year Switzerland so called "Velostrassen" are a thing, these are simply streets in 30km/h zones with priority for bicycles instead of the right before left regime in such zones.
This is at least similar to the situation in Belgium (legally) and some other countries (informally) where similar concepts exist, in BE, NL and so on such streets are tagged with cyclestreet=yes.
This is however different to the German concept of "Fahrradstrassen" which are wider bicycle paths on which pedestrian use is allowed and you have to ride on the right (with other words essentially a normal "Veloweg" in Switzerland). "Fahrradstrassen" are tagged with bicycle_road=yes and IMHO that should always be on a highway=cycleway.
I would suggest that in Switzerland we should use cyclestreet=yes as this models the legal situation here better than the German bicycle_road=yes and would document that in the wiki in the appropriate places if there is no big protest.
Further I've noticed that there is small number of uses of bicycle_road in Switzerland (http://overpass-turbo.osm.ch/?q=LyoKVGhpcyBoYcSGYmVlbiBnxI1lcmF0ZWQgYnkgdGhl...) that I suspect are either actually a Velostrasse or are mistagged due to an issue with the JOSM preset for bicycle road that might have been used outside of DE. These should naturally be checked and changed to cyclestreet=yes if we have a consensus on the matter.
Simon
Am 06.09.2021 um 13:28 schrieb Flips:
Hi Simon
I do not agree with you. In Germany a Fahrradstrasse (bicycle_road) is a street where bicycles have the priority. Normaly it is a highway=residential. Cars normaly are allowed. Some rare exceptions exist. Speed limit is not signed out but as far as I learned it is 30km/h. Pedestrians are not allowed.
Nope.
See https://dejure.org/gesetze/StVO/Anlage_2.html
Neither Radwege nor Radstrassen allow other traffic without explicit signage including pedestrians, they are dedicated bicycle infrastructure. Because they are typically wider it is simply possible to allow car traffic which on your typical German Radweg wouldn't work :-).
However I didn't want to start a discussion on the fine points of German traffic laws (which will take a decade or so), it is just clear that the Swiss Velostrasse -doesn't indicate dedicated bicycle infrastructure.
Simon
Urs
Am 6. September 2021 10:38:16 MESZ schrieb Simon Poole simon@poole.ch:
Since the beginning of this year Switzerland so called "Velostrassen" are a thing, these are simply streets in 30km/h zones with priority for bicycles instead of the right before left regime in such zones. This is at least similar to the situation in Belgium (legally) and some other countries (informally) where similar concepts exist, in BE, NL and so on such streets are tagged with cyclestreet=yes. This is however different to the German concept of "Fahrradstrassen" which are wider bicycle paths on which pedestrian use is allowed and you have to ride on the right (with other words essentially a normal "Veloweg" in Switzerland). "Fahrradstrassen" are tagged with bicycle_road=yes and IMHO that should always be on a highway=cycleway. I would suggest that in Switzerland we should use cyclestreet=yes as this models the legal situation here better than the German bicycle_road=yes and would document that in the wiki in the appropriate places if there is no big protest. Further I've noticed that there is small number of uses of bicycle_road in Switzerland (http://overpass-turbo.osm.ch/?q=LyoKVGhpcyBoYcSGYmVlbiBnxI1lcmF0ZWQgYnkgdGhlIG92xJJwxIlzLXR1cmJvIHdpemFyZC7EgsSdxJ9yaWdpbmFsIHNlxLBjaMSsxIk6CsOiwoDCnGJpY3ljbGVfcm9hZD0qIMS6IFPErXR6xJJsYW5kxYjCnQoqLwpbb3V0Ompzb25dW3RpbWXFrMWuMjVdOwovLyBmZXTFgiDEsMWAIMWIwpzFnGnFnsWgxaLFpMKAwp3Em8SrxL_FgcWDxLoKe3vEkG9jb2RlQXLFgDrGjsaQcsWhxaN9fS0-LsaYcsWCxqXFgMW_xoHEj8SUxJ1yIMamc3VsdHMKKAogIMa5cXXEksSaxKNydMaDb3I6xovFicWLxY3Fj8WRxZPFlcWXxaXHhyBuxqJlWyLHmMWOxZDFksWUZCJdKMaJYcayxYDGtGjGtmEpxb_HiHdhecelx6fHmseqxZXHrcevxqbHscazxrXIhce4x6DGpsWhxbbFsse-xYzHqMebx6vIg8ewx7LGmce2yIrIisa5cMS3bseRxr_HgceDCsW6xJjGonnFvz7Fv8ilc2tlxL1xdDs&c=BMv3wQkgfI&R <http://overpass-turbo.osm.ch/?q=LyoKVGhpcyBoYcSGYmVlbiBnxI1lcmF0ZWQgYnkgdGhlIG92xJJwxIlzLXR1cmJvIHdpemFyZC7EgsSdxJ9yaWdpbmFsIHNlxLBjaMSsxIk6CsOiwoDCnGJpY3ljbGVfcm9hZD0qIMS6IFPErXR6xJJsYW5kxYjCnQoqLwpbb3V0Ompzb25dW3RpbWXFrMWuMjVdOwovLyBmZXTFgiDEsMWAIMWIwpzFnGnFnsWgxaLFpMKAwp3Em8SrxL_FgcWDxLoKe3vEkG9jb2RlQXLFgDrGjsaQcsWhxaN9fS0-LsaYcsWCxqXFgMW_xoHEj8SUxJ1yIMamc3VsdHMKKAogIMa5cXXEksSaxKNydMaDb3I6xovFicWLxY3Fj8WRxZPFlcWXxaXHhyBuxqJlWyLHmMWOxZDFksWUZCJdKMaJYcayxYDGtGjGtmEpxb_HiHdhecelx6fHmseqxZXHrcevxqbHscazxrXIhce4x6DGpsWhxbbFsse-xYzHqMebx6vIg8ewx7LGmce2yIrIisa5cMS3bseRxr_HgceDCsW6xJjGonnFvz7Fv8ilc2tlxL1xdDs&c=BMv3wQkgfI&R>) that I suspect are either actually a Velostrasse or are mistagged due to an issue with the JOSM preset for bicycle road that might have been used outside of DE. These should naturally be checked and changed to cyclestreet=yes if we have a consensus on the matter. Simon
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For Belgium the exact rules are
- maxspeed 30 km/h - motorized vehicles are not allowed to overtake cyclist. - the normal priority rules still hold, this means cyclists do have to give priority to traffic from the right
regards
m.
On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 10:38 AM Simon Poole simon@poole.ch wrote:
Since the beginning of this year Switzerland so called "Velostrassen" are a thing, these are simply streets in 30km/h zones with priority for bicycles instead of the right before left regime in such zones.
This is at least similar to the situation in Belgium (legally) and some other countries (informally) where similar concepts exist, in BE, NL and so on such streets are tagged with cyclestreet=yes.
This is however different to the German concept of "Fahrradstrassen" which are wider bicycle paths on which pedestrian use is allowed and you have to ride on the right (with other words essentially a normal "Veloweg" in Switzerland). "Fahrradstrassen" are tagged with bicycle_road=yes and IMHO that should always be on a highway=cycleway.
I would suggest that in Switzerland we should use cyclestreet=yes as this models the legal situation here better than the German bicycle_road=yes and would document that in the wiki in the appropriate places if there is no big protest.
Further I've noticed that there is small number of uses of bicycle_road in Switzerland ( http://overpass-turbo.osm.ch/?q=LyoKVGhpcyBoYcSGYmVlbiBnxI1lcmF0ZWQgYnkgdGhl...)
that I suspect are either actually a Velostrasse or are mistagged due to an issue with the JOSM preset for bicycle road that might have been used outside of DE. These should naturally be checked and changed to cyclestreet=yes if we have a consensus on the matter.
Simon
talk-ch mailing list talk-ch@openstreetmap.ch http://lists.openstreetmap.ch/mailman/listinfo/talk-ch
Hi all,
For Belgium the exact rules are
Hm, this prompted me to look up the rules for cyclestreets in the Netherlands as well. Turns out that they do not actually exist in the Dutch traffic law, the sign that is used is also not defined by law. This means that in the Netherlands, a cyclestreet has the same rules as a regular street, but the design of the street suggests more priority for cyclists (usually the road surface is red, like cycleways). Also, the commonly used sign says "cars are guests", which is also a hint.
Gr.
Matthijs
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Flips -
Marc Gemis -
Matthijs Kooijman -
Simon Poole