Hi
Hi,
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 01:20:43PM +0200, Beni Buess wrote:
Hi
Most Bus Stations/Lines in Switzerland are operated by PAG (PostAuto Schweiz AG). At the 10th of June 2011 User xylome did a mass edit (1) on 650 nodes and 79 relations to change PAG => PostAuto Schweiz AG in different languages. This was done on a bounding box which covers almost whole Switzerland. The remaining 10000 nodes with operator=PAG were somehow missed. Is there any explanation of this action?
The PAG obviously comes from the Didok Import. With a few exceptions, operator contains always an acronym. (2)
What do we consider the right value? It would make sense to have the values consistent IMHO.
xylome is the maintainer of the xybot. I contacted him on the 10th about the problem with the betreiber tag. He promised to revert the changes but he felt that acronyms are not proper for an OSM tag. I explained that changing the tag to PostAuto AG would break consistency but apparently he didn't care. Instead, he seems to have decided to also change also stops previously untouched by xybot. Excellent.
Personally, I don't care if there are acronyms or full names in the operator tag. But I totally agree with you that consistency is important. If there is a strong agreement with xylome that operator tags should contain the full name then I can do another mass edit using the DidokImport user. Otherwise we should revert xylomes changes.
I suggest to revert the changeset. I'm all for consistency, *if* we want full names in the operator tag, we should do this for all (public transport) operators IMHO. This would lead to some discussion on how to name them in detail and then we can prepare a mass edit for *all* stops, not just a few hundered and leaving the operator tag in a inconsistent state.
Is anybody against reverting? I'll do it saturday, if nobody is against it. then we would have a consistent state again and can decide carefully about a possible mass edit.
Beni
Hi,
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 02:03:10PM +0200, Beni Buess wrote:
Hi
Hi,
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 01:20:43PM +0200, Beni Buess wrote:
Hi
Most Bus Stations/Lines in Switzerland are operated by PAG (PostAuto Schweiz AG). At the 10th of June 2011 User xylome did a mass edit (1) on 650 nodes and 79 relations to change PAG => PostAuto Schweiz AG in different languages. This was done on a bounding box which covers almost whole Switzerland. The remaining 10000 nodes with operator=PAG were somehow missed. Is there any explanation of this action?
The PAG obviously comes from the Didok Import. With a few exceptions, operator contains always an acronym. (2)
What do we consider the right value? It would make sense to have the values consistent IMHO.
xylome is the maintainer of the xybot. I contacted him on the 10th about the problem with the betreiber tag. He promised to revert the changes but he felt that acronyms are not proper for an OSM tag. I explained that changing the tag to PostAuto AG would break consistency but apparently he didn't care. Instead, he seems to have decided to also change also stops previously untouched by xybot. Excellent.
Personally, I don't care if there are acronyms or full names in the operator tag. But I totally agree with you that consistency is important. If there is a strong agreement with xylome that operator tags should contain the full name then I can do another mass edit using the DidokImport user. Otherwise we should revert xylomes changes.
I suggest to revert the changeset. I'm all for consistency, *if* we want full names in the operator tag, we should do this for all (public transport) operators IMHO. This would lead to some discussion on how to name them in detail and then we can prepare a mass edit for *all* stops, not just a few hundered and leaving the operator tag in a inconsistent state.
Is anybody against reverting? I'll do it saturday, if nobody is against it. then we would have a consistent state again and can decide carefully about a possible mass edit.
A few days ago, I was about to suggest to compromise and for now only rename the stops with operator=PAG, but then I realised that that means that we have to decide if it should be PostAuto AG or CarPostale or whatever. The acronym has the advantage that it is more or less language independent. So, yes, go ahead.
Sarah (who is actually very grateful if she doesn't need to do it, remind me to buy you a beer at the next Stammtisch)
+1 for reverting it
On 21.07.2011 14:03, Beni Buess wrote:
Hi
Hi,
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 01:20:43PM +0200, Beni Buess wrote:
Hi
Most Bus Stations/Lines in Switzerland are operated by PAG (PostAuto Schweiz AG). At the 10th of June 2011 User xylome did a mass edit (1) on 650 nodes and 79 relations to change PAG => PostAuto Schweiz AG in different languages. This was done on a bounding box which covers almost whole Switzerland. The remaining 10000 nodes with operator=PAG were somehow missed. Is there any explanation of this action?
The PAG obviously comes from the Didok Import. With a few exceptions, operator contains always an acronym. (2)
What do we consider the right value? It would make sense to have the values consistent IMHO.
xylome is the maintainer of the xybot. I contacted him on the 10th about the problem with the betreiber tag. He promised to revert the changes but he felt that acronyms are not proper for an OSM tag. I explained that changing the tag to PostAuto AG would break consistency but apparently he didn't care. Instead, he seems to have decided to also change also stops previously untouched by xybot. Excellent.
Personally, I don't care if there are acronyms or full names in the operator tag. But I totally agree with you that consistency is important. If there is a strong agreement with xylome that operator tags should contain the full name then I can do another mass edit using the DidokImport user. Otherwise we should revert xylomes changes.
I suggest to revert the changeset. I'm all for consistency, *if* we want full names in the operator tag, we should do this for all (public transport) operators IMHO. This would lead to some discussion on how to name them in detail and then we can prepare a mass edit for *all* stops, not just a few hundered and leaving the operator tag in a inconsistent state.
Is anybody against reverting? I'll do it saturday, if nobody is against it. then we would have a consistent state again and can decide carefully about a possible mass edit.
Beni _______________________________________________ talk-ch mailing list talk-ch@openstreetmap.ch http://lists.openstreetmap.ch/mailman/listinfo/talk-ch
Am Thu, 21 Jul 2011 21:45:09 +0200 schrieb datendelphin mailinglist@osm.datendelphin.net:
+1 for reverting it
On 21.07.2011 14:03, Beni Buess wrote:
Hi
Hi,
On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 01:20:43PM +0200, Beni Buess wrote:
Hi
Most Bus Stations/Lines in Switzerland are operated by PAG (PostAuto Schweiz AG). At the 10th of June 2011 User xylome did a mass edit (1) on 650 nodes and 79 relations to change PAG => PostAuto Schweiz AG in different languages. This was done on a bounding box which covers almost whole Switzerland. The remaining 10000 nodes with operator=PAG were somehow missed. Is there any explanation of this action?
The PAG obviously comes from the Didok Import. With a few exceptions, operator contains always an acronym. (2)
What do we consider the right value? It would make sense to have the values consistent IMHO.
xylome is the maintainer of the xybot. I contacted him on the 10th about the problem with the betreiber tag. He promised to revert the changes but he felt that acronyms are not proper for an OSM tag. I explained that changing the tag to PostAuto AG would break consistency but apparently he didn't care. Instead, he seems to have decided to also change also stops previously untouched by xybot. Excellent.
Personally, I don't care if there are acronyms or full names in the operator tag. But I totally agree with you that consistency is important. If there is a strong agreement with xylome that operator tags should contain the full name then I can do another mass edit using the DidokImport user. Otherwise we should revert xylomes changes.
I suggest to revert the changeset. I'm all for consistency, *if* we want full names in the operator tag, we should do this for all (public transport) operators IMHO. This would lead to some discussion on how to name them in detail and then we can prepare a mass edit for *all* stops, not just a few hundered and leaving the operator tag in a inconsistent state.
Is anybody against reverting? I'll do it saturday, if nobody is against it. then we would have a consistent state again and can decide carefully about a possible mass edit.
I've tried reverting the changeset, but there are many changes already made with these stops that it is a painful job to do. since the operator tag of the stops touched by the change were not consistent at all (PostAuto, Postauto, PAG, Postauto AG....) i decided to leave it for now. To me it seems the best option to do another mass edit to bring the operator to a consistent state. whether this is going to be a abbrevation (PAG) or the full name in 3 languages should be discussed here. There are at least these 3 options:
1: operator=PAG[;other operator]
2: operator:de = PostAuto Schweiz AG[;other operator] operator:fr = CarPostal Suisse SA[;other operator] operator:it = AutoPostale Svizzera SA[;other operator] operator = one of the above, depending on the main language at this stop
3: operator:de = PostAuto Schweiz AG[;other operator] operator:fr = CarPostal Suisse SA[;other operator] operator:it = AutoPostale Svizzera SA[;other operator] operator = PAG[;other operator]
Option #1 would be the easiest to do IMHO. With #2, we need to find a way to distinguish the language (maybe using the municipal boundaries and a list with d/fr/it/rm?). This problem is eliminated with #3. Maybe somebody comes up with another option.
Whether to touch the other operators or not is yet another topic to reach consensus in.
Beni
On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 6:41 PM, Beni Buess beni@benel.net wrote:
With #2, we need to find a way to distinguish the language (maybe using the municipal boundaries and a list with d/fr/it/rm?). This problem is eliminated with #3.
Option #2 has a big problem in the bilingual regions ... I am now in Biel/Bienne, and while in the Valais/Wallis often took the train to Sierre/ Siders.
The issue obviously goes beyond the bus service ... In Sion you have the Banque Cantonale du Valais, in Brig you have the Walliser Kantonalbank.
I am not sure how important consistency is ... map the things and put a more or less appropriate tag on them :)
Mohamed
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Beni Buess -
datendelphin -
Mohamed Ellozy -
Sarah Hoffmann