Hi all,
The other day I noticed the way cycle routes are tagged in Switzerland. There, the usage of the name tag differs from the general usage of name tags within OSM. IMHO, we should not deviate from established tagging practices without a really good reason.
Therefore, I took the liberty to modify http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/EN:Switzerland/CycleNetwork#Recommended_t... and to change the name tag to be in line with the way it is used elsewhere in OSM and also http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cycle_routes#Relations
I also noticed that some relations have quite elaborate and long names. To reduce these to be just the names I have added the description and description:xx tags. There, the start and end points and possibly other information for the data user can be noted.
I know there are arguments for the tagging the way it is now. The name tag gets displayed in JOSM and it is not rendered on any map anyway. But, we don't want to tag for editors and the map renderings might change and who knows who is rendering maps with and what styles anyway.
I propose to change the tagging according to the current version of the wiki page. Unless there are strong objections I will start with that in a week or so.
Happy mapping,
Matthias
Hi,
The other day I noticed the way cycle routes are tagged in Switzerland. There, the usage of the name tag differs from the general usage of name tags within OSM. IMHO, we should not deviate from established tagging practices without a really good reason.
I assume that you have read this thread: http://lists.openstreetmap.ch/pipermail/talk-ch/2009-May/000356.html
Therefore, I took the liberty to modify http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/EN:Switzerland/CycleNetwork#Recommended_t... and to change the name tag to be in line with the way it is used elsewhere in OSM and also http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cycle_routes#Relations
I also noticed that some relations have quite elaborate and long names. To reduce these to be just the names I have added the description and description:xx tags. There, the start and end points and possibly other information for the data user can be noted.
I don't agree with that. Those "elaborate and long names" are there for a reason. In that particular case to distinguish parts of a route from the entire route. You should not just put "Aare Route" on a relation that only contains the part from Spiez to Meiringen because it is confusing for both mapper and map users. In fact, the notion
name=<route name> (<from>-<to>)
for a stage of the route is quite well established in OSM.
I have no strong feelings about removing the ncn/rcn part.
I know there are arguments for the tagging the way it is now. The name tag gets displayed in JOSM and it is not rendered on any map anyway. But, we don't want to tag for editors and the map renderings might change and who knows who is rendering maps with and what styles anyway.
I propose to change the tagging according to the current version of the wiki page. Unless there are strong objections I will start with that in a week or so.
I have to agree with Simon. I don't see any reason to do a hasty retagging of all cycling routes unless there is a strong agreement among active Swiss mappers to do so. At least find out who is looking after cycling routes at the moment and contact them so that you don't start an edit war.
Gruss
Sarah
Sarah Hoffmann lonvia@denofr.de writes:
Hi,
The other day I noticed the way cycle routes are tagged in Switzerland. There, the usage of the name tag differs from the general usage of name tags within OSM. IMHO, we should not deviate from established tagging practices without a really good reason.
I assume that you have read this thread: http://lists.openstreetmap.ch/pipermail/talk-ch/2009-May/000356.html
Yes.
Therefore, I took the liberty to modify http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/EN:Switzerland/CycleNetwork#Recommended_t... and to change the name tag to be in line with the way it is used elsewhere in OSM and also http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cycle_routes#Relations
I also noticed that some relations have quite elaborate and long names. To reduce these to be just the names I have added the description and description:xx tags. There, the start and end points and possibly other information for the data user can be noted.
I don't agree with that. Those "elaborate and long names" are there for a reason. In that particular case to distinguish parts of a route from the entire route. You should not just put "Aare Route" on a relation that only contains the part from Spiez to Meiringen because it is confusing for both mapper and map users. In fact, the notion
name=<route name> (<from>-<to>)
for a stage of the route is quite well established in OSM.
Well, having multiple objects with the same that belong together is quite well established also. Nobody gets confused by having a street made up from a number of segments sharing the same name. In the thread cited above is no mention of including "(<from>-<to>)" in the name and the wiki page does not (and did not) document that neither.
Anyway, you certainly have a point and I don't want to swim against the flow here. If this is common practice in other places, too, I can live with it.
And, if this is the consensus here it should be documented on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/EN:Switzerland/CycleNetwork#Recommended_t...
I have no strong feelings about removing the ncn/rcn part.
Those just don't belong in the name and they are quite ugly. Who in Switzerland and outside the OSM community knows what those mean?
I know there are arguments for the tagging the way it is now. The name tag gets displayed in JOSM and it is not rendered on any map anyway. But, we don't want to tag for editors and the map renderings might change and who knows who is rendering maps with and what styles anyway.
I propose to change the tagging according to the current version of the wiki page. Unless there are strong objections I will start with that in a week or so.
I have to agree with Simon. I don't see any reason to do a hasty retagging of all cycling routes unless there is a strong agreement among active Swiss mappers to do so. At least find out who is looking after cycling routes at the moment and contact them so that you don't start an edit war.
Yes, "Don't be hasty!"
I am in no rush. And I have posted here to get other opinions.
If someone is reverting my edits that is not yet an edit war. ;-)
Matthias
Matthias Julius lists@julius-net.net writes:
Sarah Hoffmann lonvia@denofr.de writes:
I don't agree with that. Those "elaborate and long names" are there for a reason. In that particular case to distinguish parts of a route from the entire route. You should not just put "Aare Route" on a relation that only contains the part from Spiez to Meiringen because it is confusing for both mapper and map users. In fact, the notion
name=<route name> (<from>-<to>)
for a stage of the route is quite well established in OSM.
Well, having multiple objects with the same that belong together is quite well established also. Nobody gets confused by having a street made up from a number of segments sharing the same name. In the thread cited above is no mention of including "(<from>-<to>)" in the name and the wiki page does not (and did not) document that neither.
Anyway, you certainly have a point and I don't want to swim against the flow here. If this is common practice in other places, too, I can live with it.
And, if this is the consensus here it should be documented on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/EN:Switzerland/CycleNetwork#Recommended_t...
So, I have started to tidy things up a bit according to the above wiki page with the exception of the (<from>-<to>) parts (see http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/8697787). So far I have just worked on ncn 1 (Rhone Route).
I still don't like those "elaborate and long names". If that information was in separate tags a data consumer can easily assemble the strings. The other way around it is harder. If someone decides to render the route names on a map it is ugly, IMHO. On a map it would be more useful to highlight the endpoints of each stage instead.
I have looked at cycle routes in UK (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_Kingdom_National_Cycle...) and Germany (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Bicycle/Liste_aller_Relationen_mit_%22...). While there are some routes which have the endpoints in their names this does seem to be far from standard. I have not checked other places, though.
Therefore, I am interested in other opinions on this matter. So please, if you care one way or the other let me know.
Anyway, from next week on I will be on vacation for four weeks and probably won't be doing much work in that time. I will try to catch up with this list from now and then.
Matthias
Am 29.06.2011 22:09, schrieb Sarah Hoffmann:
I have to agree with Simon. I don't see any reason to do a hasty retagging of all cycling routes unless there is a strong agreement among active Swiss mappers to do so. At least find out who is looking after cycling routes at the moment and contact them so that you don't start an edit war.
I've done some clean up of the routes, but I don't believe that anybody could or should be looking after the routes alone (it -is- a crowd sourced project after all).
In any case I just wanted to point out that Beni wrote a script accessing his XAPI server that dumps out all* cycle routes in Switzerland in a format similar to what we have manually added to the wiki.
http://osm.xiala.net/cycle/routes.php
* some of the super relations are missing because they don't seem to be included in the extract that the DB is based on.
I've fixed most of the errors, including numerous routes with neither a name nor a ref tag (which kind of makes a route relation pointless :-)).
The script is also very useful to see if somebody is currently working on a route and hasn't entered it in the wiki yet (since the cyclemap is constantly out of date you can't rely on a visual check).
Simon
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Matthias Julius -
Sarah Hoffmann -
Simon Poole