On 07.09.2011 22:45, Stéphane Brunner wrote:
Ouai, sauf que dans OSM on a pas les rue en tant que surface, du coup cela veux dire que, surtout dans les cas ou l'on fais du micro mapping, la place va jusqu’au milieux de la rue. Je sais que je joue un peut sur le mot mais ou final je ne voie pas comment on peut dire que dans le deux exemple que j'ai attaché on ne puisse dire qu'il contiennent autant d'information, car le ex1.osm contiens clairement plus d'informations.
Since Stéphane brought up the Place de la Riponne earlier, why don't we stay with this example? That would probably be the most appropriate way to discuss what kind of information is important to Stéphane and what kind of information is important to me.
Riponne_1_ orig.jpg shows the Place de la Riponne as it was before I touched it and with which Stéphane seemed to be perfectly happy.
Riponne_2_shernott.jpg shows the Place de la Riponne after I had a first go at it and added the corridors and stairways inside the subway station and some pedestrian ways on the place. Those of you who know the place will realize that the subway station is greatly simplified and stylized. If you have a look at the entrances to the east, you will see that I changed them from a more exact to a more useful way (with regard to routing for pedestrians and wheelchairs). And you can see the shifted borders of the place multipolygon, with the old borders in pink, which I had left around in anticipation of Stéphane's reaction. From my point of view, I added quite a bit of useful information (and also exactitude) to the place and took away some information and exactitude that would be expected in a zone plan, but not have an purpose on a map. So this is a practical example for what I meant when I was talking yesterday about maps and plans.
Riponne_3_stéphane.jpg shows the Place de la Riponne 2 days later, after Stéphane had his way again.
And now that I have confessed my sins of simplification and stylization, we'll probably soon be able to witness some more activity around the subway station. ;-)
So when Stefan Keller proposed to get some wider spectrum of opinions, I think the question that needs to be answered (for every area and for every community individually) is whether we want to create a plan or a map. We can't have both. At least not in the same area. We might be able to toggle and prioritize the rendering of certain tags according to map type and zoom level. But to my knowledge there are no algorithms with the ability to produce the kind of simplifications and stylisations that you make on a map, because that implies decisions about moving, combining and deleting ways and nodes.
Thorsten (Shernott)
Hello,
Tout d'abord merci Tosten pour cet exemple qui me parle plus que tout tes message précédent.
Je répond d'un bloc car je n'ai rien a dire sur les détails, je vais juste parle le la distinction carte/plan, car c'est bien le nœud du problème,
en fait la réponse a cette question trouve sur la première page du wiki d'OSM : « OpenStreetMap creates and provides free geographic data such as street maps to anyone who wants them. » OSM n'est donc pas une carte ni un plan. D’ailleurs la fondation le défini de la même manière http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Main_Page. C'est donc au rendu de faire la différence entre un plan et une carte mais pas les données. D'ailleurs il ne faut pas tagger pour le rendu : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tagging_for_the_renderer
Au passage je profite pour placer les bonnes pratiques: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice
Alors à une prochaine;-) Stéphane
On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 12:03 PM, tnk@gmx.net wrote:
On 07.09.2011 22:45, Stéphane Brunner wrote:
Ouai, sauf que dans OSM on a pas les rue en tant que surface, du coup cela veux dire que, surtout dans les cas ou l'on fais du micro mapping, la place va jusqu’au milieux de la rue. Je sais que je joue un peut sur le mot mais ou final je ne voie pas comment on peut dire que dans le deux exemple que j'ai attaché on ne puisse dire qu'il contiennent autant d'information, car le ex1.osm contiens clairement plus d'informations.
Since Stéphane brought up the Place de la Riponne earlier, why don't we stay with this example? That would probably be the most appropriate way to discuss what kind of information is important to Stéphane and what kind of information is important to me.
Riponne_1_ orig.jpg shows the Place de la Riponne as it was before I touched it and with which Stéphane seemed to be perfectly happy.
Riponne_2_shernott.jpg shows the Place de la Riponne after I had a first go at it and added the corridors and stairways inside the subway station and some pedestrian ways on the place. Those of you who know the place will realize that the subway station is greatly simplified and stylized. If you have a look at the entrances to the east, you will see that I changed them from a more exact to a more useful way (with regard to routing for pedestrians and wheelchairs). And you can see the shifted borders of the place multipolygon, with the old borders in pink, which I had left around in anticipation of Stéphane's reaction. From my point of view, I added quite a bit of useful information (and also exactitude) to the place and took away some information and exactitude that would be expected in a zone plan, but not have an purpose on a map. So this is a practical example for what I meant when I was talking yesterday about maps and plans.
Riponne_3_stéphane.jpg shows the Place de la Riponne 2 days later, after Stéphane had his way again.
And now that I have confessed my sins of simplification and stylization, we'll probably soon be able to witness some more activity around the subway station. ;-)
So when Stefan Keller proposed to get some wider spectrum of opinions, I think the question that needs to be answered (for every area and for every community individually) is whether we want to create a plan or a map. We can't have both. At least not in the same area. We might be able to toggle and prioritize the rendering of certain tags according to map type and zoom level. But to my knowledge there are no algorithms with the ability to produce the kind of simplifications and stylisations that you make on a map, because that implies decisions about moving, combining and deleting ways and nodes.
Thorsten (Shernott)
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