Hey Marc

Isn't the iD tutorial a good start for "training" newcomers? what does it lack ?

Generally I find the iD tutorial quite good. It could describe how to align aerial imagery as well, but that's not THAT important I guess... I'm not sure if people actually do use the tutorial. Keeping it somewhat short may increase the chance that people will work through it until its end.

Just today I wrote a changeset comment into a changeset from a new user where some rather trivial errors were made: Not understanding or wrongly using the direction of a way, not splitting it where necessary and maybe worst, replacing a highway=primary with a highway=cycleway. These kind of errors maybe ended up in other changesets as well (I did not check). These kind of errors could be prevented from the beginning. (Also I would have thought this should have been clear from the tutorial.)

How will a newcomer know that there is a "course" ? adding the info on the welcome message ? if I remember 'll, you get the message only after making the fisrt changeset.

I'd go with the channels where the swiss OSM community has access to: - osm.ch - sosm.ch - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:WikiProject_Switzerland - word of mouth

And above all, who has the time to do a live course ?

I assume we won't be overrun at the beginning so the initial load should be low, also note how this might work out as a virtuos circle: People who found such a course useful, hopefully would be willing to teach later on as well or at least do some great mapping. That makes the time for such a one-time course rather well spent since there is a multiplier effect. Of course I'd like to see some other people comitted to the idea as well, otherwise it will be hard to keep it alive.

Personally, I've known OSM long before my first changeset, since I didn't dare to change something, being afraid of "breaking" something or making "unprofessional" changes.

Best regards

Lukas

________________________________________ Von: talk-ch talk-ch-bounces@openstreetmap.ch im Auftrag von marc marc marc_marc_irc@hotmail.com Gesendet: Sonntag, 3. Dezember 2017 17:42 An: talk-ch@openstreetmap.ch Betreff: Re: [talk-ch] Einzel-Schulungen für interessierte Anfänger / Individual courses for interested beginners

Hello,

Absolutely, it is a great idea. but a few questions: Isn't the iD tutorial a good start for "training" newcomers? what does it lack ? How will a newcomer know that there is a "course" ? adding the info on the welcome message ? if I remember 'll, you get the message only after making the fisrt changeset. And above all, who has the time to do a live course ?

Regards, Marc

Le 03. 12. 17 à 11:29, Toggenburger Lukas a écrit :

Hello list

I just had the follwing idea: How about we offer interested beginners to give individual courses on mapping? We could publish such an offer on the webiste, process such requests and distribute them amongst volunteers that live close.

Advantages would be:

• Lower the inhibition to actually map something
• Include beginners in the community (by referencing the mailing list, regular meetups, etc.)
• Decrease of work/wrong data due to wrong mapping
• Lower effort than organizing a complete mapping party
• Efficiency, since an interested person already has a basic interest when he requests a course

What do you think?

Lukas

_______________________________________________ talk-ch mailing list talk-ch@openstreetmap.ch http://lists.openstreetmap.ch/mailman/listinfo/talk-ch

Hallo Lukas

Ich finde das eine gute Idee, ich würde das auch unterstützen.

Grüsse Michael

On 11/12/17 07:40, Toggenburger Lukas wrote:

(english text below)

Hallo zusammen

Leider war das Feedback auf meinen Vorschlag bzgl. Mapping-Einzelschulungen noch etwas dünn. Wo seht ihr die Probleme? Findet ihr die Idee nicht gut? Scheut ihr ein entsprechendes Commitment?

Lukas

---

Hello list

Unfortunately there wasn't much feedback regarding my proposal concerning mapping courses for individuals. Where do you see problems? Do you dislike the idea? Are you afraid to commit yourself?

Lukas _______________________________________________ talk-ch mailing list talk-ch@openstreetmap.ch http://lists.openstreetmap.ch/mailman/listinfo/talk-ch

Marc and Michael

Ich finde das eine gute Idee, ich würde das auch unterstützen.

Vielen Dank schon mal dafür!

how many new mapper post a message this year ? Two, I think.

Yes, that is not very much. I speculate that more people would engage on the mailing list and on other opportunities after experiencing that there is a community of people, some of which also meet regularly and know each other.

my proposal to look at the changeset of new contributors seemed like a good idea

I'm afraid I missed that. What exactly was your proposition?

In some cases, requests for help posted on the mailing do not have an answer after one week. I doubt that proposing a "real-time" help is easier.

That is certainly not a desirable situation. However it may not be directly comparable to my proposition: While I have complete beginners in mind who just need a little extra push (such as I did), people who don't get an answer probably are more experienced/have very specific questions, I guess?

one last problem is that we would have to know what is not clear or what is missing in the current tutorials proposed by iD.

I don't think anything substantial is missing. My assumption is that some people are just a tiny bit too careful/afraid since they don't want to "destroy" any good work and therefore just don't do mapping at all. (But maybe I'm projecting from my own experience onto others.)

Perhaps there should be an online "monthly meeting/training" in each language, perhaps this will encourage potential silent readers to participate.

That would probably be a compromise variant between a tutorial (such as the one from iD) and a face-to-face meeting. Would you be willing to act as a tutor (teacher) in such an online meeting?

I'd still be interested in the opinions of the others. What do you think?