Am 05.08.2021 um 21:31 schrieb Raphael:
Hi Simon, hi everyone!
Unfortunately, the link on https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ISTAT_Italian_Borders doesn't work anymore. I also can't improve the boundary with the help of the boundary stones, because some stones are missing in OSM. (I couldn't access them because they are in a fenced pasture.) Besides, the boundary from swissBOUNDARIES3D changes its direction more often than there are boundary stones. (Maybe there are some boundary markers on ground level which i haven't noticed.)
I've compared the Swiss border in OSM with swissBOUNDARIES3D: While there are only minor differences on the northern boundary from Geneva to the Lower Engadine (except from the Lake Constance, where the boundaries differ up to 1.3 km),
There are no boundaries in Lake Constance, there are some ways in OSM to close the polygons from a practical pov, but there are no international boundaries there that they could correspond to (the swisstopo boundaries are just as make-believe, simply slightly different dreaming).
there are larger differences (as i have seen up to 70 m) on the southern boundary (e.g. between Pas de Morgins and Mont Dolent). It doesn't seem that all these differences would come from simplification.
It would be very helpful if we could use the new swissBOUNDARIES3D. Who asked Swisstopo at the time if we could use this data?
I did.
Politically I don't think it would be a good move to try this again right now. I can definitely ask OSM Italia for some help with the specific issue.
Simon
Best regards
Raphael
On Tue, 3 Aug 2021 at 12:14, Simon Poole simon@poole.ch wrote:
Am 01.08.2021 um 22:18 schrieb Raphael:
Hi Simon
Thank you very much for your reply!
The nodes don't seem to have changed since the import (they are all version 1). Where can i get the original source to check whether it was correct or wrong there? If the original source is correct, i could redraw the national border with it.
The problem could be that at the time we (well not me because I was a neophyte at the time :-)) applied some simplification to the data for technical reasons, which in general shouldn't cause such problems, but maybe it is the reason here. Or something else, but I didn't find anything obvious.
But in any case https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1372930109 is in the correct place, but https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1372930116 seems to be a bit off, it should be further to the east, on the other side. The simplest way to fix it is to find an Italian open data source for the coordinates (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ISTAT_Italian_Borders maybe), or survey the boundary stone if there is one there (or it might actually be visible on imagery).
Simon
Best regards
Raphael
On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 at 21:59, Simon Poole simon@poole.ch wrote:
The thing is that the boundaries were originally imported from swissBoundaries3D with explicit permission from swisstopo see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Switzerland/swissBOUNDARIES3D . In the mean time the legal situation has changed and have to assume that at least currently the data is off limits.
Now naturally the probably more interesting question is why is there such a big difference? Was this in the original data or is it simply an editing error (then likely the issue can be undone).
Simon
Am 01.08.2021 um 21:22 schrieb Raphael:
Hi everyone
Can no one tell me if it is still allowed to use swissBOUNDARIES3D?
Best regards
Raphael
On Thu, 22 Jul 2021 at 23:11, Raphael dafadllyn@gmail.com wrote:
(Unten auf Deutsch)
Ciao a tutti
Ho notato che il confine nazionale sul Monte Generoso è impreciso su OSM (errore tra 3 e 10 metri). Per quanto ne so, le cippi di confine degli anni 1900 e 1914 sono ancora valide – ma in OSM il confine corre accanto alle cippi di confine (esempio [1]). Inoltre, la Cappelletta della Madonna della Provvidenza è in territorio svizzero – ma in OSM è in Italia. [2]
Mi è permesso di correggere il confine con l'aiuto di swissBOUNDARIES3D [3]? Posso importare lo shapefile direttamente in JOSM, o devo ancora convertire il sistema di riferimento delle coordinate?
Cordiali saluti
Raphael
Hallo zusammen
Mir ist aufgefallen, dass die Landesgrenze auf dem Monte Generoso bei OSM ungenau verläuft (Fehler zwischen 3 und 10 Meter). Meines Wissens sind die Grenzsteine aus den Jahren 1900 und 1914 nach wie vor gültig – bei OSM verläuft die Grenze jedoch neben den Grenzsteinen (Beispiel [1]). Ausserdem befindet sich die Cappelletta della Madonna della Provvidenza auf Schweizer Boden – in OSM befindet sich sich jedoch in Italien. [2]
Darf ich die Grenze mithilfe von swissBOUNDARIES3D [3] korrigieren? Kann ich das Shapefile direkt in JOSM importieren, oder muss ich noch eine Konvertierung des Koordinatenreferenzsystems vornehmen?
Beste Grüsse
Raphael
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