Hi
Am 26.08.2014 um 11:19 schrieb Stephan:
Hello all,
Well, the "fahrplanfelder data" is updated every week and contains all recent change in public transport stops (that are reported by the transportation agencies). This is the raw dataset that is also used at fahrplan.sbb.ch http://fahrplan.sbb.ch. For example, if a stop is temporarily out of service due to construction work, this is reflected in the fahrplanfelder-dataset (or should be). Additionally, not all stops at DIDOK are actually in service, in fahrplanfelder they are (or should be).
Regarding license: This license is especially written with respect to schedule data: I assume that BAV and SBB want to make sure that people and organizations always use the latest schedule data. For example, a mobile app offering the service should regularly update the data so it shows correct schedules to the customers of the transportation agency.
I assume, showing correct schedules/data to customers is a vital business interest of a mobile app provider. Thus, IMHO "quality concerns" can't be the reason. - Reading paragraph 3 and 4 of the excerpt license agreement I read greed and enviousness.
People used to "deal" with OpenData are fully aware, that all data release into the wild can't be controlled anymore longer. And these people don't care, if somebody makes money out of it. Para 3 and 4 show the opposite.
Do we agree that the data and the update frequency is valuable (which I'm convinced of)?
+1
For OSM it helps to improve all ÖV related data
If so, it would be worth asking if the stop data
alone can be released in a ODbL compatible license. What do you think?
Sure. Everything what is ODbL compatible is fine and will very likely be used happily.
All the NOT-ODbL-rest I would never touch. Too much hassle or I'm keen to have fun with the Controletti Family :-)
cheeers, h.
Cheers Stephan
2014-08-25 8:39 GMT+02:00 michael spreng <mailinglist@osm.datendelphin.net mailto:mailinglist@osm.datendelphin.net>:
Hi Stephan I wonder: should they have different data than DIDOK? Looking at the Impressum page the BAV is mentioned. It is a bewildering license. SBB (not BAV) may at any time come and check? What? I agree with Andreas it is not compatible with ODbL. I regret that I can not make it to the opendata workshop about public transport data. Michael On 2014-08-25 08:07, Stephan wrote: Hello all In my opinion, one could abandon DIDOK and import (and maintain) the stops from official Swiss schedule available at http://www.fahrplanfelder.ch/ (Link "Fahrplandaten"). Since May, the data is published every week. The format for HAFAS [1], but the stops and their coordinates can easily be extracted from one file (BFKOORD resp BFKOORD_GEO). To automate the import, one could also consider the GTFS version, which is offered by the private company geOps based on the official data, http://gtfs.geops.ch/. One has to check the license agreement [2], though. Cheers Stephan [1] http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/__HAFAS <http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAFAS> [2] excerpt license agreement http://www.fahrplanfelder.ch/__de/fahrplandaten/__nutzungsrichtlinien/ <http://www.fahrplanfelder.ch/de/fahrplandaten/nutzungsrichtlinien/> : 3. Nutzung der überlassenen Rohdaten Der Datenbezüger ist berechtigt, die überlassenen Rohdaten entsprechend Ziff.3 dieser Lizenzvereinbarung zu verwenden. Der Bezüger ist berechtigt, die Rohdaten zu veredeln und in geeigneter Form zu publizieren. Der Bezüger verpflichtet sich die Rohdaten mindestens monatlich zu aktualisieren um eine aktuelle Fahrplanpublikation zu garantieren. Die gelieferten Rohdaten dürfen inhaltlich nicht verändert, verfälscht oder gelöscht werden. Eine Anreicherung der Fahrplaninformationen ist in dem Sinn gestattet, dass weitere Datensätze (Bsp. Belegungszahlen, etc.) zu den bestehenden Echtzeitdaten hinzugefügt werden dürfen. Eine kommerzielle Verwendung der Daten aus der Kundeninformationsplattform ist nicht gestattet. Für angereicherte Daten (Mehrwertangebote) ist eine Abgabe gegen Entgelt gestattet. 4. Pflichten der Bezüger Der Bezüger verpflichtet sich, alle nach dem jeweils neusten Stand der Technik möglichen Vorkehren zu treffen, um eine unbefugte Verwendung der Rohdaten durch Dritte zu verhindern. Der Kunde verpflichtet sich, der SBB AG den Verwendungszweck der überlassenen Rohdaten bei Rückfrage bekannt zu geben. Die SBB AG ist berechtigt, die Einhaltung des Nutzungsrechtes jederzeit vor Ort selber zu überprüfen. 2014-08-24 21:38 GMT+02:00 Michael Spreng <mailinglist@osm.datendelphin.__net <mailto:mailinglist@osm.datendelphin.net>> : Hello I imported the newest dataset of public transport stops from the BAV (Bundesamt für Verkehr), known as DIDOK list, into our comparison tool at didok.osm.ch <http://didok.osm.ch> I had a look at the stops where DIDOK and OSM disagree the most in location (the stops where we have the largest distance between the OSM coordinates and the DIDOK coordinates) http://didok.osm.ch/#sw:9:46.__903369:8.316650 <http://didok.osm.ch/#sw:9:46.903369:8.316650> And I made a few corrections to OSM data. Mostly there were issues with OSM having a wrong uic_ref number attached to the stop. For a few stops it seems the DIDOK data has improved, and we still have the old DIDOK data which was imported in 2009 and was a few kilometres off. But it seems there is no big potential for automated edits, this is best done manually. I have found some stops where the new location is at least as questionable as the old one (example http://didok.osm.ch/#sc:14:47.__491631:8.254766 <http://didok.osm.ch/#sc:14:47.491631:8.254766> The new DIDOK coordinates are on the SW end of the black line. But to me it looks like "Ennetturgi" is rather on the NE end) Over all I think DIDOK has improved a bit, but there are still lots of funny errors in it. For example here: http://didok.osm.ch/#sc:14:47.__491631:8.254766 <http://didok.osm.ch/#sc:14:47.491631:8.254766> they mixed up Gonten and Gontenbad :) Too bad we couldn't motivate them to use OSM to check their data. I will follow up with one or two other DIDOK related topics in the next few weeks. In the mean time please keep using our public transport check tool. There are still lots of unchecked bus stops (http://didok.osm.ch/#sc:14:__47.491631:8.254766 <http://didok.osm.ch/#sc:14:47.491631:8.254766> the red circles) which are potentially totally wrong data from DIDOK. Have a nice week Michael _________________________________________________ talk-ch mailing list talk-ch@openstreetmap.ch <mailto:talk-ch@openstreetmap.ch> http://lists.openstreetmap.ch/__mailman/listinfo/talk-ch <http://lists.openstreetmap.ch/mailman/listinfo/talk-ch> _________________________________________________ talk-ch mailing list talk-ch@openstreetmap.ch <mailto:talk-ch@openstreetmap.ch> http://lists.openstreetmap.ch/__mailman/listinfo/talk-ch <http://lists.openstreetmap.ch/mailman/listinfo/talk-ch> _________________________________________________ talk-ch mailing list talk-ch@openstreetmap.ch <mailto:talk-ch@openstreetmap.ch> http://lists.openstreetmap.ch/__mailman/listinfo/talk-ch <http://lists.openstreetmap.ch/mailman/listinfo/talk-ch>
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