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talk-ch@openstreetmap.ch

6 participants
2217 discussions

Is it possible to adapt the "to" member of a "destination_sign" tag?
by Raphaël Terrettaz 11 Jan '22

11 Jan '22

Hello, As I read in the Wiki, the "to" member of a "destination_sign" tag can contain a way or a node. In my current review of hiking trails, I would like to put a relation inside. Here is a real example : I've created a hiking route between 2 guideposts : https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/13273890 I've also created a destination_sign to indicate the destination and time. I use the first point of the way to indicate the "to" : https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/13276408 When I display the map, I can only seen 2 circles. That will not really help users. In the destination_sign I could indicate the first way, it will be little more explicit. But if I could enter the relation to the destination in the "to", there would be a great gain of information. Do you know why the "to" member is not accepting a relation ? Is it possible to change it ? Thank you Raphael Terrettaz

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Re: [talk-ch] Switzerland-specific tagging of schools
by James Bell 09 Jan '22

09 Jan '22

Hi, I'm no expert on the school system. Tagging vocational school type sounds interesting and I guess easier to check on the ground than diploma type. Were you thinking using an existing tag and e.g. amenity=college / school=professional_education / amenity=school and adding something to describe the type of vocation? E.g. school:studies Did you aready see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Tag:amenity%3Dschool#school%3Atype ? Regards, James. On Sun, 9 Jan 2022, 12:00 , <talk-ch-request(a)openstreetmap.ch> wrote: > Send talk-ch mailing list submissions to > talk-ch(a)openstreetmap.ch > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.openstreetmap.ch/mailman/listinfo/talk-ch > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > talk-ch-request(a)openstreetmap.ch > > You can reach the person managing the list at > talk-ch-owner(a)openstreetmap.ch > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of talk-ch digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Switzerland-specific tagging of schools (Toggenburger Lukas) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 20:38:27 +0000 > From: Toggenburger Lukas <Lukas.Toggenburger(a)fhgr.ch> > To: "talk-ch(a)openstreetmap.ch" <talk-ch(a)openstreetmap.ch> > Subject: [talk-ch] Switzerland-specific tagging of schools > Message-ID: <8ede2af993864320adc060e8099442b2(a)fhgr.ch> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Dear list > > I recently thought about creating a Switzerland-specific tagging scheme > that would allow to specify the different kinds of school that exist in > Switzerland. Wikipedia [1] gives a good introduction: However, it is > incomplete, as [2] shows (it lists 39 types of educations one can achieve > in Switzerland). I tried to create a summary and some tagging ideas at [3], > but got a bit stuck. I encountered several stumbling blocks: > > 1. Instead of tagging schools, it might make more sense to tag diplomas > one can achieve. E.g. at a vocational school (Berufsfachschule, ehemals > Berufsschule) you can do your diploma (vocational baccalaureate > ("Berufsmaturität")) _during_ your vocational training or _afterwards_. > > 2. The name of a school does not clearly indicate the diploma you will > achieve: E.g. at [4] (Fachmaturitätsschule FMS) one can achieve a > "Fachmittelschulausweis" (giving access to PET college (HF)) and later on > one can achieve a "Fachmaturitätszeugnis" (giving access to university of > applied science (FH)). > > 3. The same type of diploma can be achieved at different schools: Example: > [5] "Berufsmaturität" can be achieved at "Berufsfachschule", > "Handelsmittelschule", "Informatikmittelschule". > > Are others interested in defining such a Switzerland-specific tagging > scheme? I can think of several different strategies: > > a. Define types of school (e.g. "Berufsfachschule") and their tags > b. Define types of diplomas (e.g. "Berufsmaturität") and their tags > c. Group together several schools/diplomas, e.g. based on their ISCED > level, see [6] > d. Define tags for only the most important (i.e. frequent) schools > (preferably in a way that won't hinder more detailed mapping later on) > > I'm a bit hesitant too define a catch-all, super-detailed tagging scheme, > because I fear it will be both hard to map (correctly/completely) and also > hard to use for data consumers. > > What do you think? > > Also, is there someone who has a bit of in-depth knowledge of ISCED? E.g. > regarding the difference between ISCED-P and ISCED-A? > > Best regards > > Lukas > > [1] > https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildungssystem_in_der_Schweiz#Schulstufen > [2] > http://uis.unesco.org/sites/default/files/documents/iscmap_che_2020.xlsx > [3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Skorbut > [4] https://www.edubs.ch/schullaufbahn/fms > [5] > https://www.zh.ch/de/bildung/schulen/maturitaetsschule/berufsmaturitaetssch… > [6] > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Standard_Classification_of_Educ… > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > talk-ch mailing list > talk-ch(a)openstreetmap.ch > http://lists.openstreetmap.ch/mailman/listinfo/talk-ch > > > ------------------------------ > > End of talk-ch Digest, Vol 2158, Issue 1 > **************************************** >

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Switzerland-specific tagging of schools
by Toggenburger Lukas 08 Jan '22

08 Jan '22

Dear list I recently thought about creating a Switzerland-specific tagging scheme that would allow to specify the different kinds of school that exist in Switzerland. Wikipedia [1] gives a good introduction: However, it is incomplete, as [2] shows (it lists 39 types of educations one can achieve in Switzerland). I tried to create a summary and some tagging ideas at [3], but got a bit stuck. I encountered several stumbling blocks: 1. Instead of tagging schools, it might make more sense to tag diplomas one can achieve. E.g. at a vocational school (Berufsfachschule, ehemals Berufsschule) you can do your diploma (vocational baccalaureate ("Berufsmaturität")) _during_ your vocational training or _afterwards_. 2. The name of a school does not clearly indicate the diploma you will achieve: E.g. at [4] (Fachmaturitätsschule FMS) one can achieve a "Fachmittelschulausweis" (giving access to PET college (HF)) and later on one can achieve a "Fachmaturitätszeugnis" (giving access to university of applied science (FH)). 3. The same type of diploma can be achieved at different schools: Example: [5] "Berufsmaturität" can be achieved at "Berufsfachschule", "Handelsmittelschule", "Informatikmittelschule". Are others interested in defining such a Switzerland-specific tagging scheme? I can think of several different strategies: a. Define types of school (e.g. "Berufsfachschule") and their tags b. Define types of diplomas (e.g. "Berufsmaturität") and their tags c. Group together several schools/diplomas, e.g. based on their ISCED level, see [6] d. Define tags for only the most important (i.e. frequent) schools (preferably in a way that won't hinder more detailed mapping later on) I'm a bit hesitant too define a catch-all, super-detailed tagging scheme, because I fear it will be both hard to map (correctly/completely) and also hard to use for data consumers. What do you think? Also, is there someone who has a bit of in-depth knowledge of ISCED? E.g. regarding the difference between ISCED-P and ISCED-A? Best regards Lukas [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildungssystem_in_der_Schweiz#Schulstufen [2] http://uis.unesco.org/sites/default/files/documents/iscmap_che_2020.xlsx [3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Skorbut [4] https://www.edubs.ch/schullaufbahn/fms [5] https://www.zh.ch/de/bildung/schulen/maturitaetsschule/berufsmaturitaetssch… [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Standard_Classification_of_Educ…

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FYI -> Inventar von Armee- und Kriegsdenkmälern in der Schweiz
by Andreas Bürki 07 Jan '22

07 Jan '22

Salut Vielleicht auch von Interesse für OSM Mapper (z.B. PotM ?) : Inventar von Armee- und Kriegsdenkmälern in der Schweiz https://www.admin.ch/gov/de/start/dokumentation/medienmitteilungen.msg-id-8… Diese Medienmitteilung der Schweizer Armee könnte für Wikipedianer von Interesse sein: "Die Schweizer Armee hat ein Inventar der in der Schweiz bestehenden Armee- und Kriegsdenkmäler erstellt und online publiziert. Das Verzeichnis schafft in digitaler Form einen Überblick über rund 900 Erinnerungszeichen. Sie rufen die alteidgenössischen Schlachten, die Aktivdienste des 20. Jahrhunderts oder Unglücke der Schweizer Armee ins Gedächtnis. Aufgeführt werden auch Denkmäler, die an die Internierten während der beiden Weltkriege oder an verstorbene Bourbaki-Soldaten erinnern." Erhalten via Hadi (Diego Hättenschwiler) / Wikiped'a -- Andreas Bürki abuerki(a)anidor.com S/MIME certificate - SHA-256 fingerprint: 8A:1A:C2:93:10:4B:CE:91:2C:80:79:44:24:1D:38:CA:EE:0E:89:C9:A5:A4:A0:03:FF:5A:FB:D1:15:18:B5:45 GnuPG - GPG fingerprint: 5DA7 5F48 25BD D2D7 E488 05DF 5A99 A321 7E42 0227

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Virtueller OSM-Stammtisch: Montag, 11. Januar
by Patrick Stählin 05 Jan '22

05 Jan '22

Salut! Es ist wohl keine Überraschung: wir treffen uns wieder virtuell. Alles was ihr braucht ist ein Browser und ein Mikrofon. Ein Getränk eurer Wahl ist optional, aber empfehlenswert. Datum: Dienstag, 11. Januar 2022 Zeit: ab 18:30 Uhr Ort: https://pub.digitale-gesellschaft.ch/b/pat-6h2-rqy Weitere Infos und (unverbindliche) Anmeldung: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Switzerland:Z%C3%BCrich/OSM-Treffen#… Gruss Packi

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municipality mergers 2022
by Loremo 01 Jan '22

01 Jan '22

Dear Talk CH List The swiss openstreetmap community has its own "same procedure as every year" at new years eve. However it is not about Miss Sophie [1], but about our municipalities. We imported all official municipality borders a few years ago and since then we try to keep them up to date. I created a list of this years merges, you can find it in the wiki [2]. Anyone with enough josm know how is welcome to participate in the mergers, as long as you stick to the proposed work flow [3]. Please always check the effective field and do not start before! Loremo [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinner_for_One [2]: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Switzerland/2022_Municipality_Mergers [3]: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Suggested_merger_workflow

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Tagging of facilities for childcare in Switzerland
by Toggenburger Lukas 31 Dec '21

31 Dec '21

tl;dr: I seek advice for tagging different facilities for childcare in Switzerland. Dear list I got a waiver to import data from the city of Uster [1] and am in the process of preparing this data for an import. Before discussing the specifics of this import, I would like to clarify some general questions regarding Switzerland-specific tagging of places for childcare that came up while working with this dataset. Regarding childcare I would like to be able to tag the following use-cases, which I believe should cover the most common cases we have in Switzerland: - A: (what I call "Kindergarten" in german): Part of the mandatory swiss school education for children of the age of approx. 4 to 6. - B: ("Kita"): Where working parents can bring their children (approx. aged 0 to 4) during office hours (up to 5 full days a week). There is a definition at [2] that defines a Kita/use-case B as: Cares periodically for children aged 3 months until the age where compulsory school ends, on at least 5 half-days, offering 6 or more slots. - C: ("Spielgruppe"): Where children go approx. once per week for only a few hours. The legal hurdles to operate such a facility are lower than those for use-case B, but seem to differ for each canton. Food/lunch is normally not offered. - D: ("Hort"): Where children of age approx. 4+ go before/between/after mandatory school visits, so parents can work. - E: ("Krabbelgruppe"): A place where parents together with their children (aged approx. 0 to 2) meet regularly (e.g. once per week) for a small number of hours. I have a bit of a hard time mapping the existing Wiki entries to the above use-cases. My understanding (mostly from [3]) is this: - A: amenity=kindergarten, preschool=yes, operator:type=public, min_age=4, max_age=6, isced:level:2011=0 - B: amenity=kindergarten, nursery=yes, operator:type=private, min_age=3 months, breakfast=yes, lunch=yes - C: amenity=kindergarten, operator:type=private, min_age=4 - D: amenity=kindergarten, after_school=yes, operator:type=private, min_age=4, - E: (seems undefined yet) What I don't like about it: - The tagging for these almost don't differ, although I expect that for parents looking for a form of childcare the differences are significant. Especially between use-case B and C there is almost no distinction. - amenity=kindergarten is used 2427 times in Switzerland [4]. There is a competing tag amenity=childcare that is used non-negligible 726 times [5] in Switzerland. Its meaning is unclear to me (see [6] and [7]) and it is mentioned in a rejected [8] and an abandoned [9] proposal. Please share your input on the following questions: - Have I missed a significant use-case for childcare? - Do you agree with my tagging for the aforementioned use-cases? - Do you see a good way how we could tag the difference between use-cases B and C? Is this already given by nursery=yes? Maybe tag their membership to either kibesuisse (use-case B) [10] or SSLV (use-case C) [11] (might not be given/known for all)? How to do so? Or define a tag playgroup=yes or CH:playgroup=yes? - Do you agree in deprecating and manually retagging amenity=childcare instances? - What would be the easiest way to get a list of all mappers that tagged amenity=childcare onto objects in Switzerland to invite them for input? - Shall I (we?) go to the tagging mailing list trying to get consensus for a tag for use-case E? What should it be? baby_crawling_group=yes ? - Do you know any public map that is already showing the given use-cases? - What have I missed or got wrong? Links: [1] https://github.com/GesellschaftStadtUster/kind-jugend-fam_angebote [2] https://www.sslv.ch/erlaeuterung-zur-definition.html [3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:amenity%3Dkindergarten [4] http://taginfo.osm.ch/tags/amenity=kindergarten [5] http://taginfo.osm.ch/tags/amenity=childcare [6] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dchildcare [7] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:amenity%3Dchildcare [8] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/childcare [9] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/childcare2.0 [10] https://www.kibesuisse.ch/ [11] https://www.sslv.ch Best regards Lukas

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Altstadt
by James Bell 26 Dec '21

26 Dec '21

Hallo Zusammen, Are there any conventions for (or against) mapping 'Altstadt' old town areas? As far as i can tell this isn't really done and historic=district <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:historic%3Ddistrict> doesn't seem much used?. Gruss James.

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Mechanical Edit: wikidata auf Strassen in Zürich
by Equal Streetname 24 Dec '21

24 Dec '21

Hallo zusammen Wir von "Missing Maps Zürich Mapathons" [1] habe uns ein zweites Projekt angelacht: zurich.equalstreetnames.eu Im Zuge dieser Arbeiten ist aufgefallen, dass das Strassennamenverzeichnis der Stadt Zürich [2] vollständig in Wikidata enthalten ist. Es lag auf der Hand mittels dem JOSM-Wikipedia-Plugin [3] gleich sämtliche OSM-Strassen in der Stadt Zürich mit dem wikidata-tag zu versehen. Dies ist bereits auf einem Drittel aller Strassen passiert, weshalb kurzfristig das aktuelle POTM-Dashboard [4] etwas überborded ist :-) Auf Grund einer Rückmeldung von Stefan wurde nun für diese Arbeit ein Eintrag in den Mechanical Edits erstellt: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Captaininler/add_wikid… Danke an Stefan, ohne ihn wäre diese Meldung unabsichtlich aus "Nichtwissen" nicht geschehen. Gruss Daniel Weblinks: [1] https://www.meetup.com/de-DE/Missing-Maps-Zurich/ [2] https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/geodaten/download/Strassennamenverzeichnis [3] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/Wikipedia [4] PotM CH Dashboard "Wikidata Peaks, Geonames and Art Works" (17): https://potm.osm.ch/superset/dashboard/17/

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PotM CH November 2021 - Fahrradstellplätze (Veloparkplätze) / Bicycle Parking / Parking à vélos
by Stefan Keller 03 Dec '21

03 Dec '21

Liebe:r Mapper:innen Das Projekt des Monats Schweiz im November ist >> Fahrradstellplätze <<! Es geht also um Parkplätze (Fahrradabstellplätze, Fahrradparkplätze, Veloparkplätze, Fahrradständer), die für Fahrräder/Velos vorgesehen sind. Es wird der (Haupt-)Tag "amenity=bicycle_parking" verwendet zusammen mit weiteren Keys, wie bicycle_parking, covered, capacity, access, fee. Auf der Radfahrerkarte wird auch die Anzahl (capacity) angezeigt: siehe das Symbol "C" z.B. in Bern https://osm.org/go/0CZwk~koR-?layers=C . (Sind das bei der Welle7 wirklich 1000 :-)?!) Weblinks: * PotM Dashboard (15): https://potm.osm.ch/superset/dashboard/15/ (Filter "Time range" ggf. neu einstellen, z.B. auf "week", dann "Apply"). * Wiki-Seite von bicycle_parking: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:amenity%3Dbicycle_parking * Wiki-Seite des PotM: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/PotM_CH ~Stefan

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