[talk-ch] Communes fusionnées et tag place=village

marc marc marc_marc_irc at hotmail.com
Fri Oct 26 21:00:12 CEST 2018

fake place=village : Jonathan have deleted some of them.
I also do it the same, but I only review one by one for the last month.
maybe we need a new osmose check (or with any other tool) to list all 
village have the same name as the municipality, so after adding the true 
village to the false-positive, I 'll help to detect future mistakes

ele (and population) :
agree for the revert not only due the unknown source but also because 
the altitude of a village located on a slope on a hill only makes sense 
if you know the long&lat concerned, which is not necessarily the place 
where the place=village node is located arbitrarily

Le 26. 10. 18 à 10:23, Simon Poole a écrit :
> We haven't really progressed to a consensus on how further to proceed. I 
> would like to suggest to
> - revert the ele data added as likely tainted.
> - change the fake place=village nodes to place=municipality
> The later is likely a semi-manual task (Marc_marc do you have a list of 
> municipalities affected?).
> Comments please?
> Simon
> Am 13.10.2018 um 12:17 schrieb Simon Poole:
>> PS: wrt the elevation data for the places that have been edited I'm 
>> fairly sure all of it is from wikipedia which in turn is likely from 
>> swisstopo which is unlikely to be legit.
>> Am 13.10.2018 um 09:44 schrieb Simon Poole:
>>> I don't quite understand donovalys problem to start with as admin
>>> entities are found just fine without his change. When and if admin
>>> entites are rendered depends on the map style/app, the changes are
>>> classic mapping for the renderer (aka mapping something wrong to make it
>>> appear on the map).
>>> The other thing is that -if- you want to add a place node for a
>>> municipality that is not a specific existing village you can use
>>> place=municipality which currently doesn't get rendered but can be
>>> argued to make sense.
>>> As to the other changes I'm a bit on the fence most of them seem to be
>>> questionable, but I don't think that is primary issue right now. Clearly
>>> country wide edits of this sort should be discussed here first, but it
>>> is not the first time we've had differences with donovalys and I kind of
>>> doubt that discussing this with him will change anything.
>>> Simon
>>> Am 13.10.2018 um 00:16 schrieb marc marc:
>>>> Bonjour,
>>>> J'ai aussi détecté le problème hier et j'ai entamé une discussion
>>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/63276497
>>>> C'est clairement un tag pour le rendu et il se trompe en citant
>>>> des exemples de nom qui sont à la fois village et commune comme
>>>> Morat/Murten ou Avenches
>>>> Il se trompe à nouveau quand il dit que Escholzmatt-Marbach
>>>> est introuvable avant qu'il ajoute le faux village
>>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=Escholzmatt-Marbach
>>>> En plus il y a le problème de licence avec ce qui s'apparente
>>>> à un import google map + wikipedia
>>>> Le problème est de grande ampleur, il y a crée au moins 4000 objets
>>>> place=* suspects et 1000 objets place=* modifiés
>>>> C'est facile d'effacer ces 4000k objets.
>>>> Cela prend beaucoup plus de temps de les passer tous en revue
>>>> pour voir si certains d'entre eux méritent d'être conservé.
>>>> Je ne sais pas si quelqu'un se sent le courage d'essayer
>>>> de récupérer/vérifier si quelque chose doit être conservé.
>>>> Sinon je m'occuperai d'effacer les objets crées.
>>>> C'est beaucoup plus compliqué pour le problème de licence
>>>> car il ne renseigne jamais la licence qu'il utilise.
>>>> Cordialement,
>>>> Marc
>>>> Le 12. 10. 18 à 22:51, Jonathan Masur a écrit :
>>>>> Bonjour à toutes et à touts,
>>>>> Un utilisateur du nom de donovaly, qui n'habite peut-être même pas en
>>>>> Suisse, veut absolument utiliser le tag place=village pour les communes
>>>>> fusionnées en Suisse. Je lui ai demandé de cesser en citant les règles
>>>>> du wiki, qui me semblent extrêmement claires:
>>>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:place%3Dvillage
>>>>> Je lui ai également indiqué que les communes fusionnées sont /déjà
>>>>> /taguées avec une relation boundary=adminstrative + admin_level=8
>>>>> Cependant il ne souhaite toujours pas obéir aux règles du wiki et ma
>>>>> transmis sa version des faits, que je cite ici:
>>>>> ==== début de citation ====
>>>>> I reply in English (I used Google translate):
>>>>> Dear Jonathan,
>>>>> this is not correct. OSM uses new names of merged villages everywhere
>>>>> with the tag "village". Take for example these 3 examples from Germany:
>>>>> -https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/240043543#map=14/50.5417/7.1236  -
>>>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/455475
>>>>> The second example is a town whose name means "free valley". It it the
>>>>> result of a merge of different former villages. All printed and all
>>>>> online maps use this new name "Freital".
>>>>> I stumbled over this issue for Swiss municipalities because I was
>>>>> recently invited to come to the Lucerne village "Escholzmatt-Marbach"
>>>>> but there was not such a village when I searched for it in OSM. In my
>>>>> printed route map I have as backup in my car, the village was printed.
>>>>> So why shouldn't a new village name appear printed in the map while this
>>>>> is common since every in printed maps, also in Switzerland: -
>>>>> https://www.google.de/maps/place/Rapperswil-Jona,+Schweiz/@47.2299628,8.825303,13z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x0:0x0!2zNDfCsDEzJzQzLjMiTiA4wrA0OSc1NC40IkU!3b1!8m2!3d47.228698!4d8.831764!3m4!1s0x479ab7c81618c2ab:0xf9db7e38adba80d9!8m2!3d47.2266214!4d8.8184166  
>>>>> -
>>>>> https://www.google.de/maps/place/3985+M%C3%BCnster-Geschinen,+Schweiz/@46.4844518,8.2003154,12z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x0:0x0!2zNDfCsDEzJzQzLjMiTiA4wrA0OSc1NC40IkU!3b1!8m2!3d47.228698!4d8.831764!3m4!1s0x4785807d1af829d5:0x3789f980c3ffbbfb!8m2!3d46.4873425!4d8.2637787  
>>>>> ==== fin de citation ====
>>>>> Qu'est-ce qu'on fait ?
>>>>> Saluations.
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