[talk-ch] Communes fusionnées et tag place=village

Simon Poole simon at poole.ch
Fri Oct 26 10:23:37 CEST 2018


We haven't really progressed to a consensus on how further to proceed. I
would like to suggest to

- revert the ele data added as likely tainted.

- change the fake place=village nodes to place=municipality

The later is likely a semi-manual task (Marc_marc do you have a list of
municipalities affected?).

Comments please?

Simon


Am 13.10.2018 um 12:17 schrieb Simon Poole:
>
> PS: wrt the elevation data for the places that have been edited I'm
> fairly sure all of it is from wikipedia which in turn is likely from
> swisstopo which is unlikely to be legit.
>
>
> Am 13.10.2018 um 09:44 schrieb Simon Poole:
>> I don't quite understand donovalys problem to start with as admin
>> entities are found just fine without his change. When and if admin
>> entites are rendered depends on the map style/app, the changes are
>> classic mapping for the renderer (aka mapping something wrong to make it
>> appear on the map).
>>
>> The other thing is that -if- you want to add a place node for a
>> municipality that is not a specific existing village you can use
>> place=municipality which currently doesn't get rendered but can be
>> argued to make sense.
>>
>> As to the other changes I'm a bit on the fence most of them seem to be
>> questionable, but I don't think that is primary issue right now. Clearly
>> country wide edits of this sort should be discussed here first, but it
>> is not the first time we've had differences with donovalys and I kind of
>> doubt that discussing this with him will change anything.
>>
>> Simon
>>
>> Am 13.10.2018 um 00:16 schrieb marc marc:
>>> Bonjour,
>>>
>>> J'ai aussi détecté le problème hier et j'ai entamé une discussion
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/63276497
>>>
>>> C'est clairement un tag pour le rendu et il se trompe en citant
>>> des exemples de nom qui sont à la fois village et commune comme 
>>> Morat/Murten ou Avenches
>>>
>>> Il se trompe à nouveau quand il dit que Escholzmatt-Marbach
>>> est introuvable avant qu'il ajoute le faux village
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=Escholzmatt-Marbach
>>>
>>> En plus il y a le problème de licence avec ce qui s'apparente
>>> à un import google map + wikipedia
>>>
>>> Le problème est de grande ampleur, il y a crée au moins 4000 objets
>>> place=* suspects et 1000 objets place=* modifiés
>>> C'est facile d'effacer ces 4000k objets.
>>> Cela prend beaucoup plus de temps de les passer tous en revue
>>> pour voir si certains d'entre eux méritent d'être conservé.
>>> Je ne sais pas si quelqu'un se sent le courage d'essayer
>>> de récupérer/vérifier si quelque chose doit être conservé.
>>> Sinon je m'occuperai d'effacer les objets crées.
>>>
>>> C'est beaucoup plus compliqué pour le problème de licence
>>> car il ne renseigne jamais la licence qu'il utilise.
>>>
>>> Cordialement,
>>> Marc
>>>
>>> Le 12. 10. 18 à 22:51, Jonathan Masur a écrit :
>>>> Bonjour à toutes et à touts,
>>>>
>>>> Un utilisateur du nom de donovaly, qui n'habite peut-être même pas en 
>>>> Suisse, veut absolument utiliser le tag place=village pour les communes 
>>>> fusionnées en Suisse. Je lui ai demandé de cesser en citant les règles 
>>>> du wiki, qui me semblent extrêmement claires:
>>>>
>>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:place%3Dvillage
>>>>
>>>> Je lui ai également indiqué que les communes fusionnées sont /déjà 
>>>> /taguées avec une relation boundary=adminstrative + admin_level=8
>>>>
>>>> Cependant il ne souhaite toujours pas obéir aux règles du wiki et ma 
>>>> transmis sa version des faits, que je cite ici:
>>>>
>>>> ==== début de citation ====
>>>>
>>>> I reply in English (I used Google translate):
>>>>
>>>> Dear Jonathan,
>>>>
>>>> this is not correct. OSM uses new names of merged villages everywhere 
>>>> with the tag "village". Take for example these 3 examples from Germany: 
>>>> - https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/240043543#map=14/50.5417/7.1236 - 
>>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/455475
>>>>
>>>> The second example is a town whose name means "free valley". It it the 
>>>> result of a merge of different former villages. All printed and all 
>>>> online maps use this new name "Freital".
>>>>
>>>> I stumbled over this issue for Swiss municipalities because I was 
>>>> recently invited to come to the Lucerne village "Escholzmatt-Marbach" 
>>>> but there was not such a village when I searched for it in OSM. In my 
>>>> printed route map I have as backup in my car, the village was printed. 
>>>> So why shouldn't a new village name appear printed in the map while this 
>>>> is common since every in printed maps, also in Switzerland: - 
>>>> https://www.google.de/maps/place/Rapperswil-Jona,+Schweiz/@47.2299628,8.825303,13z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x0:0x0!2zNDfCsDEzJzQzLjMiTiA4wrA0OSc1NC40IkU!3b1!8m2!3d47.228698!4d8.831764!3m4!1s0x479ab7c81618c2ab:0xf9db7e38adba80d9!8m2!3d47.2266214!4d8.8184166 
>>>> - 
>>>> https://www.google.de/maps/place/3985+M%C3%BCnster-Geschinen,+Schweiz/@46.4844518,8.2003154,12z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x0:0x0!2zNDfCsDEzJzQzLjMiTiA4wrA0OSc1NC40IkU!3b1!8m2!3d47.228698!4d8.831764!3m4!1s0x4785807d1af829d5:0x3789f980c3ffbbfb!8m2!3d46.4873425!4d8.2637787 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ==== fin de citation ====
>>>>
>>>> Qu'est-ce qu'on fait ?
>>>>
>>>> Saluations.
>>>>
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