[talk-ch] Addresses and all that ... (GWR)

Olivier Chatelain olivier.chatelain at gmail.com
Tue Mar 6 20:50:23 CET 2018


Great, thank you Simon.

Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch> schrieb am Di., 6. März 2018 um 16:56 Uhr:

> I've now received an attribution text  for the contributors page, which I
> assume is supposed to indicate that yes, attributing there is OK.
>
> Assuming that we will be using the data in one way or the other, I will be
> adding the data and creating a wiki page for it later today.
>
> Simon
>
> Am 28.02.2018 um 19:13 schrieb Simon Poole:
>
> Short update:
>
> the BfS has now changed the text distributed for the third time since
> release (in December), it now includes an attribution requirement that
> previously wasn't there. As you may know we can't offer downstream
> attribution in OSM and I've asked the BfS if they could agree to
> attribution on the wiki page as I've already mentioned.previously
>
> I don't expect an answer before the 2nd week of March, so we will just
> have to wait a bit more.
>
> Simon
>
> On 30.01.2018 21:49, Simon Poole wrote:
>
> Wiki page:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors
>
> The disclaimer is semi-nonsense and just restates on the base of which
> ordinance they are making the data available at all (it is not as if
> they were not allowed to define ToU for data of access type A, that's is
> what swisstopo has done for years, and you wouldn't say that swisstopo
> has been breaking the law all the time, or would you? :-)) , I would
> take it essentially as do what you like with it. probably when the
> "official" dataset from swisstopo becomes available it will be on
> different terms.
>
> Simon
>
>
> Am 30.01.2018 um 18:34 schrieb marc marc:
>
> Simon which wiki page are you talking about?
>
> I didn't understand what the Disclaimer meant to an osm contributor.
>
> For postal codes and cities, I think we should also ask ourselves
> how we want to use them.
> do we want to duplicate them everywhere on all objects?
> the best way would be to use this data to build the missing boundary.
>
> Le 30. 01. 18 à 18:30, Stefan Keller a écrit :
>
> 2018-01-30 10:46 GMT+01:00 Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch> <simon at poole.ch>:
>
> The main question is if we should do something with the PLZ6 digits or just forget about them.
>
> But you keep the PLZ4? Since Nominatim recently supports them even better [1].
>
> :Stefan
>
>
> [1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/lonvia/diary/43143
>
> 2018-01-30 10:46 GMT+01:00 Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch> <simon at poole.ch>:
>
> @All I've tried to pry something more concrete on the usage terms from our
> contact at the BfS, however this has proven to be more difficult than I
> assumed (or maybe not). In any case the text that is currently pointed to is
>
> Disclaimer DE
> Gemäss Art. 16 der Verordnung über das eidgenössische Gebäude- und
> Wohnungsregister vom 1. Juli 2017 (VGWR; SR 431.841) veröffentlicht das BFS
> die Daten der Berechtigungsstufen A im Internet. Die Bereitstellung der
> Strassen und der Gebäudeadressen (beide Stufe A) erfolgt gemäss Art. 26a und
> 26c der Verordnung über die geografischen Namen vom 21. Mai 2008 (GeoNV; SR
> 510.625) durch swisstopo. Das BFS teilt swisstopo die Daten und periodisch
> alle Änderungen mit (Art. 26a Abs. 3 und 26c Abs. 2 GeoNV).
>
> Die amtlichen Verzeichnisse der Strassen (Art. 26a GeoNV) und der
> Gebäudeadressen (Art. 26c GeoNV) werden aktuell vorbereitet und treten
> schrittweise bis spätestens 1. Juli 2021 in Kraft (Art. 37a GeoNV).
>
> Um den Zugang zu diesen Daten auch während der Übergangszeit zu ermöglichen,
> kümmert sich das BFS um eine Zwischenlösung. Es ist ein Zugriff auf die
> Daten in Listenform möglich, wobei die Bereitstellung grundsätzlich gemäss
> Art. 26a und 26b GeoNV erfolgt. Diese Listen sind für die Behörden
> unverbindlich. Nur die von swisstopo erstellten und in Betrieb genommenen
> amtlichen Verzeichnisse der Strassen und Gebäudeadressen sind
> behördenverbindlich
>
> There have been some hints that we should provide attribution which I would
> suggest we do, as customary, on the Contributors wiki page.
>
> Further note: I've included GWR extracts in OSM format as described below:
> http://qa.poole.ch/addresses/GWR/n.osm.zip
>
> The main question is if we should do something with the PLZ6 digits or just
> forget about them.
>
> SImon
>
>
>
> Am 21.12.2017 um 10:01 schrieb Simon Poole:
>
>
> I've re-projected the data and split it up in to municipalities, you can get
> the zipped ESRI shapefile from
> http://qa.poole.ch/addresses/GWR/n.zip
>
> by replacing n with the BfS municipality number.
>
> Notes:
> a) as already said the use terms are not quite clear right now, and likely
> won't be before Christmas, but obviously you can familiarize yourself with
> the data now. Quality seems to vary a bit, in principle the nodes should be
> where the entrances are, but obviously in many cases that is only very rough
> b) what we want to do with the data in the end is unclear, and likely this
> will have to be decided on canton by canton
> c) if we decide to import the data we need to follow the import process
> d) we are already importing the address data from the Canton of Berne, and
> it would likely be helpful to finish that off before embarking on any thing
> new
>
> Simon
>
> Am 19.12.2017 um 18:19 schrieb Simon Poole:
>
> I had contact with the BfS yesterday and clear terms of use should be
> forthcoming.
>
> If I get around to it before Christmas, I'll see if I can produce a version
> of the data re-projected to WGS84 coordinates.
>
> Simon
>
>
>
> On 16. Dezember 2017 15:00:14 MEZ, Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch> <simon at poole.ch> wrote:
>
> I was originally going to remind everybody, particularly those resident
> in the canton Berne, that we have an ongoing project to import addresses
> and trace buildings that is not complete yethttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canton_of_Bern_Address_Import and
> then I was going to point out that besides the addresses from the canton
> of Zürich that will become available at the beginning of January, that
> from our correspondence with the BfS we would be expecting the first
> address data from the GWR to be available for download in the next
> quarter too.
>
> However yesterday we were a bit surprised by the announcement that data
> from the GWR would become available immediately in a provisional form
> (this is what we had actually been actually asking the BfS to do, as
> there is no clear reason to wait till the "official" v!
>   ersion
> is prepared
> by swisstopo, however they hadn't responded in a positive way).
>
> The downside is that, beside swisstopo and the BfS creating the
> impression of a not really well thought out, rather uncoordinated
> effort, it is currently not clear what the actual licence/use conditions
> are (there are lots of links being sent around which lead to
> conflicting, sometimes year old information). We'll see if we can
> clarify this next week.
>
> I've generated a short comparison of where we are in OSM currently vs.
> the GWR data:  http://qa.poole.ch/addresses/ch_canton
>
> Noteworthy points:
>
> - last year roughly end of the year we had  667'807 addresses vs.
> 868'960 now, an increase of a good 120'000. Most of this is due to
> Berne increasing from 88'817 to 190'243 (actually the very small
> increase in the other cantons is slightly disappointing)
> - th!
>   e weak
> cantons are those that we expected
> - the GWR numbers are lower than those in the available cantonal
> datasets mainly due to a more restrictive definition of what an address
> is.
>
> As soon as we've clarified the licence situation, we can have a look
> what the best way will be to utilize the data one way or another.
>
> Simon
>
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