[talk-ch] Addresses and all that ... (GWR)

Simon Poole simon at poole.ch
Tue Mar 6 16:56:10 CET 2018

I've now received an attribution text  for the contributors page, which
I assume is supposed to indicate that yes, attributing there is OK.

Assuming that we will be using the data in one way or the other, I will
be adding the data and creating a wiki page for it later today.


Am 28.02.2018 um 19:13 schrieb Simon Poole:
> Short update:
> the BfS has now changed the text distributed for the third time since
> release (in December), it now includes an attribution requirement that
> previously wasn't there. As you may know we can't offer downstream
> attribution in OSM and I've asked the BfS if they could agree to
> attribution on the wiki page as I've already mentioned.previously
> I don't expect an answer before the 2nd week of March, so we will just
> have to wait a bit more.
> Simon
> On 30.01.2018 21:49, Simon Poole wrote:
>> Wiki page:
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors
>> The disclaimer is semi-nonsense and just restates on the base of which
>> ordinance they are making the data available at all (it is not as if
>> they were not allowed to define ToU for data of access type A, that's is
>> what swisstopo has done for years, and you wouldn't say that swisstopo
>> has been breaking the law all the time, or would you? :-)) , I would
>> take it essentially as do what you like with it. probably when the
>> "official" dataset from swisstopo becomes available it will be on
>> different terms.
>> Simon
>> Am 30.01.2018 um 18:34 schrieb marc marc:
>>> Simon which wiki page are you talking about?
>>> I didn't understand what the Disclaimer meant to an osm contributor.
>>> For postal codes and cities, I think we should also ask ourselves
>>> how we want to use them.
>>> do we want to duplicate them everywhere on all objects?
>>> the best way would be to use this data to build the missing boundary.
>>> Le 30. 01. 18 à 18:30, Stefan Keller a écrit :
>>>> 2018-01-30 10:46 GMT+01:00 Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch>:
>>>>> The main question is if we should do something with the PLZ6 digits or just forget about them.
>>>> But you keep the PLZ4? Since Nominatim recently supports them even better [1].
>>>> :Stefan
>>>> [1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/lonvia/diary/43143
>>>> 2018-01-30 10:46 GMT+01:00 Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch>:
>>>>> @All I've tried to pry something more concrete on the usage terms from our
>>>>> contact at the BfS, however this has proven to be more difficult than I
>>>>> assumed (or maybe not). In any case the text that is currently pointed to is
>>>>> Disclaimer DE
>>>>> Gemäss Art. 16 der Verordnung über das eidgenössische Gebäude- und
>>>>> Wohnungsregister vom 1. Juli 2017 (VGWR; SR 431.841) veröffentlicht das BFS
>>>>> die Daten der Berechtigungsstufen A im Internet. Die Bereitstellung der
>>>>> Strassen und der Gebäudeadressen (beide Stufe A) erfolgt gemäss Art. 26a und
>>>>> 26c der Verordnung über die geografischen Namen vom 21. Mai 2008 (GeoNV; SR
>>>>> 510.625) durch swisstopo. Das BFS teilt swisstopo die Daten und periodisch
>>>>> alle Änderungen mit (Art. 26a Abs. 3 und 26c Abs. 2 GeoNV).
>>>>> Die amtlichen Verzeichnisse der Strassen (Art. 26a GeoNV) und der
>>>>> Gebäudeadressen (Art. 26c GeoNV) werden aktuell vorbereitet und treten
>>>>> schrittweise bis spätestens 1. Juli 2021 in Kraft (Art. 37a GeoNV).
>>>>> Um den Zugang zu diesen Daten auch während der Übergangszeit zu ermöglichen,
>>>>> kümmert sich das BFS um eine Zwischenlösung. Es ist ein Zugriff auf die
>>>>> Daten in Listenform möglich, wobei die Bereitstellung grundsätzlich gemäss
>>>>> Art. 26a und 26b GeoNV erfolgt. Diese Listen sind für die Behörden
>>>>> unverbindlich. Nur die von swisstopo erstellten und in Betrieb genommenen
>>>>> amtlichen Verzeichnisse der Strassen und Gebäudeadressen sind
>>>>> behördenverbindlich
>>>>> There have been some hints that we should provide attribution which I would
>>>>> suggest we do, as customary, on the Contributors wiki page.
>>>>> Further note: I've included GWR extracts in OSM format as described below:
>>>>> http://qa.poole.ch/addresses/GWR/n.osm.zip
>>>>> The main question is if we should do something with the PLZ6 digits or just
>>>>> forget about them.
>>>>> SImon
>>>>> Am 21.12.2017 um 10:01 schrieb Simon Poole:
>>>>> I've re-projected the data and split it up in to municipalities, you can get
>>>>> the zipped ESRI shapefile from
>>>>> http://qa.poole.ch/addresses/GWR/n.zip
>>>>> by replacing n with the BfS municipality number.
>>>>> Notes:
>>>>> a) as already said the use terms are not quite clear right now, and likely
>>>>> won't be before Christmas, but obviously you can familiarize yourself with
>>>>> the data now. Quality seems to vary a bit, in principle the nodes should be
>>>>> where the entrances are, but obviously in many cases that is only very rough
>>>>> b) what we want to do with the data in the end is unclear, and likely this
>>>>> will have to be decided on canton by canton
>>>>> c) if we decide to import the data we need to follow the import process
>>>>> d) we are already importing the address data from the Canton of Berne, and
>>>>> it would likely be helpful to finish that off before embarking on any thing
>>>>> new
>>>>> Simon
>>>>> Am 19.12.2017 um 18:19 schrieb Simon Poole:
>>>>> I had contact with the BfS yesterday and clear terms of use should be
>>>>> forthcoming.
>>>>> If I get around to it before Christmas, I'll see if I can produce a version
>>>>> of the data re-projected to WGS84 coordinates.
>>>>> Simon
>>>>> On 16. Dezember 2017 15:00:14 MEZ, Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch> wrote:
>>>>>> I was originally going to remind everybody, particularly those resident
>>>>>> in the canton Berne, that we have an ongoing project to import addresses
>>>>>> and trace buildings that is not complete yet
>>>>>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canton_of_Bern_Address_Import and
>>>>>> then I was going to point out that besides the addresses from the canton
>>>>>> of Zürich that will become available at the beginning of January, that
>>>>>> from our correspondence with the BfS we would be expecting the first
>>>>>> address data from the GWR to be available for download in the next
>>>>>> quarter too.
>>>>>> However yesterday we were a bit surprised by the announcement that data
>>>>>> from the GWR would become available immediately in a provisional form
>>>>>> (this is what we had actually been actually asking the BfS to do, as
>>>>>> there is no clear reason to wait till the "official" v!
>>>>>>   ersion
>>>>>> is prepared
>>>>>> by swisstopo, however they hadn't responded in a positive way).
>>>>>> The downside is that, beside swisstopo and the BfS creating the
>>>>>> impression of a not really well thought out, rather uncoordinated
>>>>>> effort, it is currently not clear what the actual licence/use conditions
>>>>>> are (there are lots of links being sent around which lead to
>>>>>> conflicting, sometimes year old information). We'll see if we can
>>>>>> clarify this next week.
>>>>>> I've generated a short comparison of where we are in OSM currently vs.
>>>>>> the GWR data:  http://qa.poole.ch/addresses/ch_canton
>>>>>> Noteworthy points:
>>>>>> - last year roughly end of the year we had  667'807 addresses vs.
>>>>>> 868'960 now, an increase of a good 120'000. Most of this is due to
>>>>>> Berne increasing from 88'817 to 190'243 (actually the very small
>>>>>> increase in the other cantons is slightly disappointing)
>>>>>> - th!
>>>>>>   e weak
>>>>>> cantons are those that we expected
>>>>>> - the GWR numbers are lower than those in the available cantonal
>>>>>> datasets mainly due to a more restrictive definition of what an address
>>>>>> is.
>>>>>> As soon as we've clarified the licence situation, we can have a look
>>>>>> what the best way will be to utilize the data one way or another.
>>>>>> Simon
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