[talk-ch] Addresses and all that ... (GWR)

Simon Poole simon at poole.ch
Thu Mar 1 20:08:10 CET 2018


AFAIK (and that is fairly far :-)) it is 1 guy.

But yes I've planned on doing that, the focus up to now has simply been
on trying to get the terms of use issue fixed.

Note: just as in Berne I expect the canton Zürich data to be "better",
well at least slightly different, than the GWR that has a different origin.

Simon


Am 01.03.2018 um 14:13 schrieb Olivier Chatelain:
> Q:
> - Will you talk to the guys of "Regio-Osm" to integrate the data?
>
> ===
>
> Still working hard for Bern, my recommendations:
>
> Map Style
>
> - Colored Streets
>
> Plugins:
>
> 1) Conflation: Merge von Daten aus Layern
>
> 2) utilsplugin2: Gebäude mit Linie und Alt-X teilen
>
> 3) Terracer: mit Shift-T in n-Teile teilen
>
> 3) ToDo-List: Offene Split's "by the merge" markieren
>
>
>
> Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch <mailto:simon at poole.ch>> schrieb am Do.,
> 1. März 2018 um 12:37 Uhr:
>
>     And just in case you didn't have enough of me posting on this
>     topic :-)
>
>     The current address counts on a per canton base:
>     http://qa.poole.ch/addresses/ch_canton would seem to indicate that
>     we are noe over 50% for Berne.
>
>     Simon
>
>
>
>     Am 28.02.2018 um 23:49 schrieb Simon Poole:
>>
>>     BTW since the beginning of 2018 all the address data in the
>>     Kanton Zürich is available on a CC0 licence which from a pure
>>     legal pov is un-problematic (IMHO we should complete the Canton
>>     Berne before we overreach by trying to do too many things at the
>>     same time).
>>
>>     Simon
>>
>>
>>     On 28.02.2018 20:59, Olivier Chatelain wrote:
>>>     Thanks for keeping the topic warm. - Good luck!
>>>
>>>     Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch <mailto:simon at poole.ch>> schrieb am
>>>     Mi., 28. Feb. 2018 um 19:13 Uhr:
>>>
>>>         Short update:
>>>
>>>         the BfS has now changed the text distributed for the third
>>>         time since release (in December), it now includes an
>>>         attribution requirement that previously wasn't there. As you
>>>         may know we can't offer downstream attribution in OSM and
>>>         I've asked the BfS if they could agree to attribution on the
>>>         wiki page as I've already mentioned.previously
>>>
>>>         I don't expect an answer before the 2nd week of March, so we
>>>         will just have to wait a bit more.
>>>
>>>         Simon
>>>
>>>
>>>         On 30.01.2018 21:49, Simon Poole wrote:
>>>>         Wiki page:
>>>>
>>>>         https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors
>>>>
>>>>         The disclaimer is semi-nonsense and just restates on the base of which
>>>>         ordinance they are making the data available at all (it is not as if
>>>>         they were not allowed to define ToU for data of access type A, that's is
>>>>         what swisstopo has done for years, and you wouldn't say that swisstopo
>>>>         has been breaking the law all the time, or would you? :-)) , I would
>>>>         take it essentially as do what you like with it. probably when the
>>>>         "official" dataset from swisstopo becomes available it will be on
>>>>         different terms.
>>>>
>>>>         Simon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         Am 30.01.2018 um 18:34 schrieb marc marc:
>>>>>         Simon which wiki page are you talking about?
>>>>>
>>>>>         I didn't understand what the Disclaimer meant to an osm contributor.
>>>>>
>>>>>         For postal codes and cities, I think we should also ask ourselves
>>>>>         how we want to use them.
>>>>>         do we want to duplicate them everywhere on all objects?
>>>>>         the best way would be to use this data to build the missing boundary.
>>>>>
>>>>>         Le 30. 01. 18 à 18:30, Stefan Keller a écrit :
>>>>>>         2018-01-30 10:46 GMT+01:00 Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch> <mailto:simon at poole.ch>:
>>>>>>>         The main question is if we should do something with the PLZ6 digits or just forget about them.
>>>>>>         But you keep the PLZ4? Since Nominatim recently supports them even better [1].
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         :Stefan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         [1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/lonvia/diary/43143
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         2018-01-30 10:46 GMT+01:00 Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch> <mailto:simon at poole.ch>:
>>>>>>>         @All I've tried to pry something more concrete on the usage terms from our
>>>>>>>         contact at the BfS, however this has proven to be more difficult than I
>>>>>>>         assumed (or maybe not). In any case the text that is currently pointed to is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         Disclaimer DE
>>>>>>>         Gemäss Art. 16 der Verordnung über das eidgenössische Gebäude- und
>>>>>>>         Wohnungsregister vom 1. Juli 2017 (VGWR; SR 431.841) veröffentlicht das BFS
>>>>>>>         die Daten der Berechtigungsstufen A im Internet. Die Bereitstellung der
>>>>>>>         Strassen und der Gebäudeadressen (beide Stufe A) erfolgt gemäss Art. 26a und
>>>>>>>         26c der Verordnung über die geografischen Namen vom 21. Mai 2008 (GeoNV; SR
>>>>>>>         510.625) durch swisstopo. Das BFS teilt swisstopo die Daten und periodisch
>>>>>>>         alle Änderungen mit (Art. 26a Abs. 3 und 26c Abs. 2 GeoNV).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         Die amtlichen Verzeichnisse der Strassen (Art. 26a GeoNV) und der
>>>>>>>         Gebäudeadressen (Art. 26c GeoNV) werden aktuell vorbereitet und treten
>>>>>>>         schrittweise bis spätestens 1. Juli 2021 in Kraft (Art. 37a GeoNV).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         Um den Zugang zu diesen Daten auch während der Übergangszeit zu ermöglichen,
>>>>>>>         kümmert sich das BFS um eine Zwischenlösung. Es ist ein Zugriff auf die
>>>>>>>         Daten in Listenform möglich, wobei die Bereitstellung grundsätzlich gemäss
>>>>>>>         Art. 26a und 26b GeoNV erfolgt. Diese Listen sind für die Behörden
>>>>>>>         unverbindlich. Nur die von swisstopo erstellten und in Betrieb genommenen
>>>>>>>         amtlichen Verzeichnisse der Strassen und Gebäudeadressen sind
>>>>>>>         behördenverbindlich
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         There have been some hints that we should provide attribution which I would
>>>>>>>         suggest we do, as customary, on the Contributors wiki page.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         Further note: I've included GWR extracts in OSM format as described below:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         http://qa.poole.ch/addresses/GWR/n.osm.zip
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         The main question is if we should do something with the PLZ6 digits or just
>>>>>>>         forget about them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         SImon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         Am 21.12.2017 um 10:01 schrieb Simon Poole:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         I've re-projected the data and split it up in to municipalities, you can get
>>>>>>>         the zipped ESRI shapefile from
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         http://qa.poole.ch/addresses/GWR/n.zip
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         by replacing n with the BfS municipality number.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         Notes:
>>>>>>>         a) as already said the use terms are not quite clear right now, and likely
>>>>>>>         won't be before Christmas, but obviously you can familiarize yourself with
>>>>>>>         the data now. Quality seems to vary a bit, in principle the nodes should be
>>>>>>>         where the entrances are, but obviously in many cases that is only very rough
>>>>>>>         b) what we want to do with the data in the end is unclear, and likely this
>>>>>>>         will have to be decided on canton by canton
>>>>>>>         c) if we decide to import the data we need to follow the import process
>>>>>>>         d) we are already importing the address data from the Canton of Berne, and
>>>>>>>         it would likely be helpful to finish that off before embarking on any thing
>>>>>>>         new
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         Simon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         Am 19.12.2017 um 18:19 schrieb Simon Poole:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         I had contact with the BfS yesterday and clear terms of use should be
>>>>>>>         forthcoming.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         If I get around to it before Christmas, I'll see if I can produce a version
>>>>>>>         of the data re-projected to WGS84 coordinates.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         Simon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         On 16. Dezember 2017 15:00:14 MEZ, Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch> <mailto:simon at poole.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>>>         I was originally going to remind everybody, particularly those resident
>>>>>>>>         in the canton Berne, that we have an ongoing project to import addresses
>>>>>>>>         and trace buildings that is not complete yet
>>>>>>>>         http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canton_of_Bern_Address_Import and
>>>>>>>>         then I was going to point out that besides the addresses from the canton
>>>>>>>>         of Zürich that will become available at the beginning of January, that
>>>>>>>>         from our correspondence with the BfS we would be expecting the first
>>>>>>>>         address data from the GWR to be available for download in the next
>>>>>>>>         quarter too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         However yesterday we were a bit surprised by the announcement that data
>>>>>>>>         from the GWR would become available immediately in a provisional form
>>>>>>>>         (this is what we had actually been actually asking the BfS to do, as
>>>>>>>>         there is no clear reason to wait till the "official" v!
>>>>>>>>           ersion
>>>>>>>>         is prepared
>>>>>>>>         by swisstopo, however they hadn't responded in a positive way).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         The downside is that, beside swisstopo and the BfS creating the
>>>>>>>>         impression of a not really well thought out, rather uncoordinated
>>>>>>>>         effort, it is currently not clear what the actual licence/use conditions
>>>>>>>>         are (there are lots of links being sent around which lead to
>>>>>>>>         conflicting, sometimes year old information). We'll see if we can
>>>>>>>>         clarify this next week.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         I've generated a short comparison of where we are in OSM currently vs.
>>>>>>>>         the GWR data:  http://qa.poole.ch/addresses/ch_canton
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         Noteworthy points:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         - last year roughly end of the year we had  667'807 addresses vs.
>>>>>>>>         868'960 now, an increase of a good 120'000. Most of this is due to
>>>>>>>>         Berne increasing from 88'817 to 190'243 (actually the very small
>>>>>>>>         increase in the other cantons is slightly disappointing)
>>>>>>>>         - th!
>>>>>>>>           e weak
>>>>>>>>         cantons are those that we expected
>>>>>>>>         - the GWR numbers are lower than those in the available cantonal
>>>>>>>>         datasets mainly due to a more restrictive definition of what an address
>>>>>>>>         is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         As soon as we've clarified the licence situation, we can have a look
>>>>>>>>         what the best way will be to utilize the data one way or another.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>         Simon
>>>>>         _______________________________________________
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