[talk-ch] Ask for mediation

Stefan Keller sfkeller at gmail.com
Mon Sep 5 19:19:18 CEST 2011


Salut Stéphane

I think Danilo made a valid point and if I would have to decide for
one approach, I'd prefer mapping roads as center lines/ways as Simon
wrote.
I think there can even co-exist roads as areas and as center lines -
as long as one still can do routing.
With only areas you can't do routing without heavy preprocessing and
(processing-ready) streets to me are one raison-d'être of OSM.

A2, Stefan

2011/9/5 Stéphane Brunner <courriel at stephane-brunner.ch>:
> Hello,
>
> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 11:21 AM, Danilo <gezuru at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Stéphane
>>
>> Well, generally if you really have data that is very accurate, and can
>> assure that the alignment of the data is correct, then I think it's
>> great to provide high detail in OSM. Maybe with the source tag set to
>> the image URL or something similar :)
> Effectively as usual ;-)
>
>>
>> But it would be strange if for example there are 500m^2 in Lausanne
>> that are mapped high-detail using areas as roads, and the rest using
>> lines as road. In that case I'd probably prefer consistency over
>> accuracy.
> Yes or no ;-) It's effectively true the it will be strange if we have
> a little area with very high accuracy and nothing any-more after but
> in the case (it not the case of Lausanne) where we have a small
> Orthophoto and not may data after that is a good to map this area with
> high accuracy. This to "thanks" (I don't know the right therm in
> English) the provider of the Orthophoto. And to show that if OSM have
> data imply that we use it to improve accuracy ;-)
>
> CU
> Stéphane
>
>
>>
>> I hope you understand my point.
>>
>> Danilo
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Stéphane Brunner
>> <courriel at stephane-brunner.ch> wrote:
>>> Hello Danilo,
>>>
>>> Globally I'm OK with your message, except two thing.
>>> - Why if in Lausanne we have a good Orthophoto we shouldn't "use it"
>>> because not almost Switzerland have one ?
>>> - Why does we need an Orthophoto that are accurate up to a few
>>> centimeters to place landuse who is at something between 2 and 10
>>> meter to the center of the road ?
>>>
>>> CU
>>> Stéphane
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 10:03 PM, Danilo <gezuru at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> My opinion about this issue:
>>>>
>>>> As long as we don't have either up to date, high resolution,
>>>> offset-corrected aerial imagery for almost all of switzerland or
>>>> positioning devices that are accurate up to a few centimeters, I don't
>>>> really see the point of tracing the borders of paths and small roads,
>>>> as the accuracy can't be determined by someone who looks at the map.
>>>> High details in mapping send a message of accuracy. If that accuracy
>>>> can't be guaranteed, it might be better to map less detailed. Else,
>>>> people will stop to rely on the OSM data, because they're very unsure
>>>> about the accuracy.
>>>>
>>>> As for correcting other people's work, I agree that this should only
>>>> be done if one is sure that the other person's changes are indeed
>>>> erroneous. E.g. if there are up to date high resolution and *correctly
>>>> aligned* satellite images, or if you have accurate GPS traces
>>>> yourself. If you're unsure, you should leave it as it is, and check
>>>> reality first. Satellite images might be off a little.
>>>>
>>>> Concerning mapping larger objects as wide roads or rivers as areas, I
>>>> don't see the problem. But to map the borders of small objects
>>>> accurately, one needs an accurate data source.
>>>>
>>>> Danilo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 9:10 PM, Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch> wrote:
>>>>> There was just, for the umpteenth time, exactly this discussion on talk-de,
>>>>> naturally
>>>>> without a conclusion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Essentially both ways of mapping  are "right", the one is more the classical
>>>>> cartographers
>>>>> generalised way of doing things, the other probably a bit more the chaotic
>>>>> OSM way.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm personally more in favour of the later because I believe it leads to
>>>>> less problems with
>>>>> edits from a large number of editors with very different ways of doing
>>>>> things.
>>>>>
>>>>> But in any case both methods are perfectly valid and ok.
>>>>>
>>>>> Simon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> PS: when everything is mapped as areas including roads the problem will go
>>>>> away :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 04.09.2011 16:12, schrieb Stéphane Brunner:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello every body,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> English bellow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ====
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Je suis désolé de cous importuner avec ça mais j'ai un problème avec
>>>>>> le contributeur Shernott (http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Shernott)
>>>>>> ou je n'arrive pas du tout avoir une discutions constructive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ce que je retiens de la discussion c'est qu'il méprise les
>>>>>> contributions des autres et que les sienne par contre sont
>>>>>> irréprochable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bien sur j'espère me tromper sur l'image que j'ai de lui et j'ai aussi
>>>>>> mon lot d'erreur mais actuellement je suis dans une impasse).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Le point central de divergence c'est qu'il veut absolument que toutes
>>>>>> les zones aillent jusqu'au centre des routes ce qui va a l’encontre
>>>>>> d'un véritable plan de zone de bonne qualité comme [1].
>>>>>> Et il est vrai que je ne veut pas un OSM au rabais.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pour être claire j'ai joint les messages échangé.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actuellement je n'ai pas répondu aux 2 derniers messages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Merci d'avance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ====
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm sorry to bother you with that but I have a problem with the
>>>>>> contributor Shernott (http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Shernott) with
>>>>>> one I can't have a constructive discussion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I retain of the discussion is that he despises the contributions
>>>>>> of others and hos one are irreproachable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course I hope I am wrong on the image I have of him and I also have
>>>>>> my share of errors but actually I am at a dead end).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The point of divergence is that it insists that all areas go to the
>>>>>> center of roads which doesn't go to the direction of having good
>>>>>> accurate zone plan like [1].
>>>>>> It is true that I do not want an OSM at a discount.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To be clear I join all the exchanged messages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Acctually I havn't responded to the two last message.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ====
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>> http://sitn.ne.ch/mapfish/amenagement?map_x=561220&map_y=204650&map_zoom=9&map_visibility_Plan%20cadastral=true&map_opacity_Plan%20cadastral=1&map_visibility_Cartes%20et%20plans%20topographiques%20gris=false&map_opacity_Cartes%20et%20plans%20topographiques%20gris=1&map_visibility_Orthophoto%202008%20gris=false&map_opacity_Orthophoto%202008%20gris=1&map_visibility_Pas%20de%20fond=false&map_opacity_Pas%20de%20fond=1&map_visibility__shared_wms_=true&map_opacity__shared_wms_=1&map_visibility_Cosmetic=true&map_opacity_Cosmetic=1&map_layers__shared_wms_=at14_zones_communales
>>>>>>
>>>>>
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