Hello all,

Well, the "fahrplanfelder data" is updated every week and contains all recent change in public transport stops (that are reported by the transportation agencies). This is the raw dataset that is also used at fahrplan.sbb.ch.

For example, if a stop is temporarily out of service due to construction work, this is reflected in the fahrplanfelder-dataset (or should be). Additionally, not all stops at DIDOK are actually in service, in fahrplanfelder they are (or should be).

Regarding license: This license is especially written with respect to schedule data: I assume that BAV and SBB want to make sure that people and organizations always use the latest schedule data. For example, a mobile app offering the service should regularly update the data so it shows correct schedules to the customers of the transportation agency.

Do we agree that the data and the update frequency is valuable (which I'm convinced of)? If so, it would be worth asking if the stop data alone can be released in a ODbL compatible license. What do you think?

Cheers

Stephan

2014-08-25 8:39 GMT+02:00 michael spreng <mailinglist@osm.datendelphin.net>:

Hi Stephan

I wonder: should they have different data than DIDOK? Looking at the Impressum page the BAV is mentioned.

It is a bewildering license. SBB (not BAV) may at any time come and check? What? I agree with Andreas it is not compatible with ODbL.

I regret that I can not make it to the opendata workshop about public transport data.

Michael

On 2014-08-25 08:07, Stephan wrote:

Hello all

In my opinion, one could abandon DIDOK and import (and maintain) the stops
from official Swiss schedule available at http://www.fahrplanfelder.ch/
(Link "Fahrplandaten"). Since May, the data is published every week. The
format for HAFAS [1], but the stops and their coordinates can easily be
extracted from one file (BFKOORD resp BFKOORD_GEO). To automate the import,
one could also consider the GTFS version, which is offered by the private
company geOps based on the official data, http://gtfs.geops.ch/.

One has to check the license agreement [2], though.

Cheers
Stephan

[1] http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAFAS

[2] excerpt license agreement
http://www.fahrplanfelder.ch/de/fahrplandaten/nutzungsrichtlinien/ :

3. Nutzung der überlassenen Rohdaten

Der Datenbezüger ist berechtigt, die überlassenen Rohdaten entsprechend
Ziff.3 dieser Lizenzvereinbarung zu verwenden. Der Bezüger ist berechtigt,
die Rohdaten zu veredeln und in geeigneter Form zu publizieren. Der Bezüger
verpflichtet sich die Rohdaten mindestens monatlich zu aktualisieren um
eine aktuelle Fahrplanpublikation zu garantieren. Die gelieferten Rohdaten
dürfen inhaltlich nicht verändert, verfälscht oder gelöscht werden. Eine
Anreicherung der Fahrplaninformationen ist in dem Sinn gestattet, dass
weitere Datensätze (Bsp. Belegungszahlen, etc.) zu den bestehenden
Echtzeitdaten hinzugefügt werden dürfen. Eine kommerzielle Verwendung der
Daten aus der Kundeninformationsplattform ist nicht gestattet. Für
angereicherte Daten (Mehrwertangebote) ist eine Abgabe gegen Entgelt
gestattet.

4. Pflichten der Bezüger

Der Bezüger verpflichtet sich, alle nach dem jeweils neusten Stand der
Technik möglichen Vorkehren zu treffen, um eine unbefugte Verwendung der
Rohdaten durch Dritte zu verhindern. Der Kunde verpflichtet sich, der SBB
AG den Verwendungszweck der überlassenen Rohdaten bei Rückfrage bekannt zu
geben. Die SBB AG ist berechtigt, die Einhaltung des Nutzungsrechtes
jederzeit vor Ort selber zu überprüfen.

2014-08-24 21:38 GMT+02:00 Michael Spreng <mailinglist@osm.datendelphin.net>
:

Hello

I imported the newest dataset of public transport stops from the BAV
(Bundesamt für Verkehr), known as DIDOK list, into our comparison tool
at didok.osm.ch

I had a look at the stops where DIDOK and OSM disagree the most in
location (the stops where we have the largest distance between the OSM
coordinates and the DIDOK coordinates)
http://didok.osm.ch/#sw:9:46.903369:8.316650
And I made a few corrections to OSM data. Mostly there were issues with
OSM having a wrong uic_ref number attached to the stop.

For a few stops it seems the DIDOK data has improved, and we still have
the old DIDOK data which was imported in 2009 and was a few kilometres
off. But it seems there is no big potential for automated edits, this is
best done manually. I have found some stops where the new location is at
least as questionable as the old one (example
http://didok.osm.ch/#sc:14:47.491631:8.254766 The new DIDOK coordinates
are on the SW end of the black line. But to me it looks like
"Ennetturgi" is rather on the NE end)

Over all I think DIDOK has improved a bit, but there are still lots of
funny errors in it. For example here:
http://didok.osm.ch/#sc:14:47.491631:8.254766 they mixed up Gonten and
Gontenbad :) Too bad we couldn't motivate them to use OSM to check their
data.

I will follow up with one or two other DIDOK related topics in the next
few weeks. In the mean time please keep using our public transport check
tool. There are still lots of unchecked bus stops
(http://didok.osm.ch/#sc:14:47.491631:8.254766 the red circles) which
are potentially totally wrong data from DIDOK.

Have a nice week
Michael
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