Dear Michael, Dear Markus,
I appreciate your emails explaining the purpose of the name tag and some of the issues with descriptive names. I am new to OpenStreetMap and the learning is important.
European Water Project has the goal to contribute to the creation of a robust well maintained database of drinking quality water fountains (and later cafes/restaurants) where people can fill up their sustainable water bottle free and avoid creating single use waste. Luckily all this can be done without the fountain having a name :) We will promote OSM best practices for name attributions.
From a philosophical point of view .... I might put fountains into two categories. The vast majority, which are just objects or fixtures of the city like a metal fountain in an airport and those that are deserving of a Proper Name. For example, the fountains which played a central role in sustaining daily life and must have had a name before running water came to Europe in the early 1900s.
Best regards,
Stuart
Hi Stuart
That name topic is a bit tricky for fountains in my opinion. Let's
approach this from another side: We are a geographic database, that
means we don't need to name objects with their location (like St
Restitut Church Bench for a bench that is beside that church, to make an
extreme example) because that information is available from the
coordinate, by looking at landmark objects close by.
But sometimes names really are descriptive. And they are still accepted
in the name tag. For example railway stations. They just get the name of
the town usually, but we still add a name tag. That one is easy, because
there are nice big signs there with the name on it, and oddities are
easy to catch for a mapper, for example if a station serves two towns
and gets a double name. So no one questions that railway stations get
name tags. But fountains? If there is some inscription with the name on
it, go ahead, it has a name. But what if there is no plate or inscription?
For a fountain, if the name is its location, I would only fill the name
tag if I was confident that it is its proper name. That people would
still call it by that name if it was relocated.
I hope that helps a bit to understand the name tag in OSM
best regards
Michael
On 21/12/2019 22:02, European Water Project wrote:
> Dear Markus,
>
> I am not sure what a "real" name means when it comes to a water fountain
> - unless it happens to be artistic. Most fountain names I have seen
> (other than artistic ones) seem to have names linked to a nearby square,
> street or other landmark. The example above of "St Restitut Church
> fountain" was for a fountain located on the side of the lone Church in
> St. Restitut, France.
>
> It seems to me that giving a concise descriptive name in the local
> language linked to a specific landmark follows the verifiability
> principal if other mappers (especially those on the ground and local)
> would always say the name given is fair and true. This being said, I
> will of course refrain from taking this liberty unless it is sanctioned
> as acceptable.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Stuart
>
> On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 at 21:11, Markus <selfishseahorse@gmail.com
> <mailto:selfishseahorse@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> > Is giving a descriptive name really not best practice in some
> circumstances? For example if I invent a name for a fountain "St
> Restitut Church fountain", is this incorrect ?
>
> Adding descriptive names would violate OSM's core principle of
> verifiability [1] [2] and would make it impossible to distinguish from
> real names.
>
> [1]: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Verifiability
> [2]: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name
>
> Best regards
>
> Markus
>
>
> On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 at 20:09, European Water Project
> <europeanwaterproject@gmail.com
> <mailto:europeanwaterproject@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Markus,
> >
> > I agree it is clearer and will make that amendment and make sure
> it is the same in the French version which we will publish in the
> next days. No one should feel the need to be inventive.
> >
> > Is giving a descriptive name really not best practice in some
> circumstances? For example if I invent a name for a fountain "St
> Restitut Church fountain", is this incorrect ?
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Stuart
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 21 Dec 2019, 13:18 Markus, <selfishseahorse@gmail.com
> <mailto:selfishseahorse@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Stuart!
> >>
> >> Thanks for adding amenity=fountain to the documentation. I would
> also change
> >>
> >> name = "the name you choose"
> >>
> >> to
> >>
> >> name = "name of the fountain" (if any)
> >>
> >> or similar, because "the name you choose" may lead people to add a
> >> description (e.g. "Drinking fountain" or "Old fountain on the main
> >> square in Watertown") instead of the fountain name, if it has one.
> >> (For descriptions, the key description is used. If the fountain
> has no
> >> name, noname=yes can be added.)
> >>
> >> Best regards
> >>
> >> Markus
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 at 18:07, European Water Project
> >> <europeanwaterproject@gmail.com
> <mailto:europeanwaterproject@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi Markus and Simon,
> >> >
> >> > We have had many non-technical people read the instructions and
> have reworked them significantly to make them more legible to
> individuals who have no knowledge of OSM or Wikimedia Commons. I am
> sure we will have to continue to improve them further.
> >> >
> >> > If either of you have the energy to review them again, I would
> greatly appreciate it.
> >> >
> >> > Best regards,
> >> >
> >> > Stuart
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, 15 Dec 2019 at 22:31, European Water Project
> <europeanwaterproject@gmail.com
> <mailto:europeanwaterproject@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hello Markus,
> >> >>
> >> >> Based on your suggestion, we will suggest when adding a
> drinking fountains to for them to be tagged either 1) as amenity =
> drinking_water or 2 ) with two tags a) amenity = fountain and b)
> drinking_water = yes.
> >> >>
> >> >> And for section 3) we will suggest that for editing a water
> fountain that does not seem to have drinking quality water that the
> fountain should be designated with two tags a) amenity = fountain
> and b) drinking_water = no.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thank you for your comments,
> >> >>
> >> >> Stuart
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sun, 15 Dec 2019, 22:05 Markus, <selfishseahorse@gmail.com
> <mailto:selfishseahorse@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Hi Stuart!
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On the Wikimedia page you suggest adding drinking_water=yes to a
> >> >>> drinking fountain (amenity=drinking_water). However, this is
> redundant
> >> >>> as amenity=drinking_water already implies drinking_water=yes. [1]
> >> >>>
> >> >>> [1]:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Ddrinking_water
> >> >>>
> >> >>> By the way, you may also be interested in mapping
> amenity=fountain,
> >> >>> i.e. decorative fountains, [2] as they often provide
> drinkable water
> >> >>> too. Note that for amenity=fountain it makes sense to add
> >> >>> drinking_water=yes/no.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> [2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dfountain
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Regards
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Markus
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