Salut Micheal


What are the inconsistencies you intend to address?


Regarding the network structure, the current Wiki entry seems quite specific: 


> The hiking nodes are labeled guideposts. Each of them contains a small > white signboard with the name of the place (usually open fields names) > and the elevation over mean sea level. They should be tagged as 

> described on tag:information=guidepost.


If I understand you want to change that nodes should be every guidepost instead of only labeled guideposts. What is the reason for this? Which problem should this solve?


I see some issues with using every guidepost as a node:


  1. The hiking network is not constant and evolves all the time. E.g. in 2016, the hiking network in Schaffhausen had substantial changes [1]. At the same time, OSM edits can break relations. This happens also regularly. Having metadata about nodes and relations is extremely helpful to see how things connect. The guidepost labels are in most cases sufficient to tell them apart. Having the guidepost labels encoded in the relations identifies them and helps to error check. Thinking further, this would also allow having some validation algorithms to check for consistency. 
  2. There are 1000s of already existing hiking relations created in the last years.
  3. There are a lot of different guideposts, that are sometimes mapped and sometimes not. Which guideposts should be nodes would not be well defined.
  4. There is no harm if a way is part of multiple lwn relations.


It is also important to be aware that the hiking network is/was not planned by computer scientists or using a GIS. Also, the way hiking routes are signaled differs between each canton. There will always be cases where something will not fit into a chosen abstraction. E.g. routes that are only signed in one direction, routes that are signed differently depending on the direction, etc. 



To the list of issues with the Wiki page I would add the following points:


Regarding names of relations, I guess this is also something related to iD. If hiking relations have no name, all hiking routes are just named "Hiking Route", which makes it painful to select the right one when mapping. RapiD uses the from/to tags, thus this will maybe trickle down to iD in the future. 


lg rene


[1] https://www.shn.ch/region/kanton/2016-12-12/es-gibt-neue-wanderwege  

[2] https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/12045190


On Sun, 20 Jun 2021 at 18:14, michael spreng <mailinglist@osm.datendelphin.net> wrote:
Hi

There was some discussion last month about hiking tagging. And I was
just asked again about some inconsistencies of the HikingNetwork wiki
page https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Switzerland/HikingNetwork

I propose some changes to it. First and foremost I would like to clarify
that the network structure is important. That means no way should be
part of multiple lwn relations. And that relations obviously can end on
unnamed guide posts. Nothing we can do if a there is a junction but the
guidepost has no name. This was also discussed with a few mappers at the
Zurich meetup last year and seems uncontentious.

I would also suggest to remove the text "The following section is a
proposal. Comments are welcome" as it is there for more than 10 years now.

Adapted text for section "Hiking path network"

===Recommended tagging===

The hiking network is different from hiking routes discussed above: As a
network, only routes between junctions are linear and therefore, each
route between two junctions (the “edges” of the network) gets its own
route relation. Each part of the network is then part of only one
relation. Each junction (node of the network) should have a guidepost,
as we only map signposted routes.

===Guideposts===

Along the hiking routes you can find guideposts. Some of those
guideposts have a small white signboard with the name of the place
(usually open fields names) and the elevation over mean sea level. They
should be tagged as described on tag:information=guidepost.

[then follows the table, and a bit further down:]

===Routes===

A way between two junctions in the network is tagged as a usual hiking
relation with network=lwn.



I would also like to introduce a Required? column to the tables, like it
is often done on other wiki pages.

Tag                     Required?
tourism=information     required
information=guidepost   required
name=*                  optional if there is one
ele=*                   optional if there is one
hiking=yes              optional
image=*                 optional


Tag             Required?
type=route      required
route=hiking    required
network=lwn     required
symbol=*        optional
osmc:symbol=*   optional
operator=*      optional
osmc:name=*     optional




The route name tag:

That seems a bit disputed. I feel this tag was forced by a particular
renderer, the "OSMC Reit- und Wanderkarte". There are two tags, name=
and osmc:name and I see that the name tag was added to the wiki page in
2018, which I seem to have missed. I would like to remove name again,
but add from= and to= to the table, hopefully a better way to help
mappers to identify relations.


Michael
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