[talk-ch] cyclestreet vs. bicyle_road

Simon Poole simon at poole.ch
Mon Sep 6 16:28:18 CEST 2021


Am 06.09.2021 um 13:28 schrieb Flips:
> Hi Simon
>
> I do not agree with you. In Germany a Fahrradstrasse (bicycle_road) is 
> a street where bicycles have the priority. Normaly it is a 
> highway=residential. Cars normaly are allowed. Some rare exceptions 
> exist. Speed limit is not signed out but as far as I learned it is 
> 30km/h. Pedestrians are not allowed.

Nope.

See https://dejure.org/gesetze/StVO/Anlage_2.html

Neither Radwege nor Radstrassen allow other traffic without explicit 
signage including pedestrians, they are dedicated bicycle 
infrastructure. Because they are typically wider it is simply possible 
to allow car traffic which on your typical German Radweg wouldn't work :-).

However I didn't want to start a discussion on the fine points of German 
traffic laws (which will take a decade or so), it is just clear that the 
Swiss Velostrasse -doesn't indicate dedicated bicycle infrastructure.

Simon

>
> Urs
>
> Am 6. September 2021 10:38:16 MESZ schrieb Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch>:
>
>     Since the beginning of this year Switzerland so called "Velostrassen"
>     are a thing, these are simply streets in 30km/h zones with priority for
>     bicycles instead of the right before left regime in such zones.
>
>     This is at least similar to the situation in Belgium (legally) and some
>     other countries (informally) where similar concepts exist, in BE, NL and
>     so on such streets are tagged with cyclestreet=yes.
>
>     This is however different to the German concept of "Fahrradstrassen"
>     which are wider bicycle paths on which pedestrian use is allowed and you
>     have to ride on the right (with other words essentially a normal
>     "Veloweg" in Switzerland). "Fahrradstrassen" are tagged with
>     bicycle_road=yes and IMHO that should always be on a highway=cycleway.
>
>     I would suggest that in Switzerland we should use cyclestreet=yes as
>     this models the legal situation here better than the German
>     bicycle_road=yes and would document that in the wiki in the appropriate
>     places if there is no big protest.
>
>     Further I've noticed that there is small number of uses of bicycle_road
>     in Switzerland
>     (http://overpass-turbo.osm.ch/?q=LyoKVGhpcyBoYcSGYmVlbiBnxI1lcmF0ZWQgYnkgdGhlIG92xJJwxIlzLXR1cmJvIHdpemFyZC7EgsSdxJ9yaWdpbmFsIHNlxLBjaMSsxIk6CsOiwoDCnGJpY3ljbGVfcm9hZD0qIMS6IFPErXR6xJJsYW5kxYjCnQoqLwpbb3V0Ompzb25dW3RpbWXFrMWuMjVdOwovLyBmZXTFgiDEsMWAIMWIwpzFnGnFnsWgxaLFpMKAwp3Em8SrxL_FgcWDxLoKe3vEkG9jb2RlQXLFgDrGjsaQcsWhxaN9fS0-LsaYcsWCxqXFgMW_xoHEj8SUxJ1yIMamc3VsdHMKKAogIMa5cXXEksSaxKNydMaDb3I6xovFicWLxY3Fj8WRxZPFlcWXxaXHhyBuxqJlWyLHmMWOxZDFksWUZCJdKMaJYcayxYDGtGjGtmEpxb_HiHdhecelx6fHmseqxZXHrcevxqbHscazxrXIhce4x6DGpsWhxbbFsse-xYzHqMebx6vIg8ewx7LGmce2yIrIisa5cMS3bseRxr_HgceDCsW6xJjGonnFvz7Fv8ilc2tlxL1xdDs&c=BMv3wQkgfI&R  <http://overpass-turbo.osm.ch/?q=LyoKVGhpcyBoYcSGYmVlbiBnxI1lcmF0ZWQgYnkgdGhlIG92xJJwxIlzLXR1cmJvIHdpemFyZC7EgsSdxJ9yaWdpbmFsIHNlxLBjaMSsxIk6CsOiwoDCnGJpY3ljbGVfcm9hZD0qIMS6IFPErXR6xJJsYW5kxYjCnQoqLwpbb3V0Ompzb25dW3RpbWXFrMWuMjVdOwovLyBmZXTFgiDEsMWAIMWIwpzFnGnFnsWgxaLFpMKAwp3Em8SrxL_FgcWDxLoKe3vEkG9jb2RlQXLFgDrGjsaQcsWhxaN9fS0-LsaYcsWCxqXFgMW_xoHEj8SUxJ1yIMamc3VsdHMKKAogIMa5cXXEksSaxKNydMaDb3I6xovFicWLxY3Fj8WRxZPFlcWXxaXHhyBuxqJlWyLHmMWOxZDFksWUZCJdKMaJYcayxYDGtGjGtmEpxb_HiHdhecelx6fHmseqxZXHrcevxqbHscazxrXIhce4x6DGpsWhxbbFsse-xYzHqMebx6vIg8ewx7LGmce2yIrIisa5cMS3bseRxr_HgceDCsW6xJjGonnFvz7Fv8ilc2tlxL1xdDs&c=BMv3wQkgfI&R>)
>     that I suspect are either actually a Velostrasse or are mistagged due to
>     an issue with the JOSM preset for bicycle road that might have been used
>     outside of DE. These should naturally be checked and changed to
>     cyclestreet=yes if we have a consensus on the matter.
>
>     Simon
>
>
>
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