[talk-ch] Changes to HikingNetwork wiki page

René Buffat buffat at gmail.com
Wed Jul 14 22:34:12 CEST 2021


I would suggest to contact the most active mappers (that contributed during
the last 1-2 years to the hiking network) with direct messages. I assume
most of these mappers are not necessarily subscribed to this mailing list
or present at a Stammtisch.

lg rene

On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 at 14:41, michael spreng <
mailinglist at osm.datendelphin.net> wrote:

> Hi René
>
> You are setting a lot of pressure on me personally. I humbly started out
> to tackle this topic as an all-round mapper. A kind of moderator. Having
> mapped hiking routes as I encountered them since quite a few years. But
> of course nothing compared to you.
>
> Your hand hovering above the nuclear button of a revert is duly noted.
>
> I also get the impression that the mailing list is now only turning
> around each individual with roundabout statements. While the initial
> discussion was fruitful and informative, I now get nothing of substance
> that I could use to improve the situation further, especially on such
> short notice.
>
> I like the proposal to discuss this in a meeting, and encourage everyone
> to participate
>
> https://cloud.sosm.ch/index.php/apps/polls/s/Oi42HVw6gsR6L0mD
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Switzerland:Z%C3%BCrich/OSM-Treffen#130._OSM-Stammtisch_Juli_.28tbd..29_2021
>
> Michael
>
> On 14.07.21 06:31, René Buffat wrote:
> > Dear Stefan
> >
> > Can you elaborate on what exactly is broken that should have been fixed
> > by the recent changes?
> 1: Name tag, 2: It was self contradicting for named guide posts
> >
> > For me, it seems as the recent changes of the wiki are pushed by people
> > not involved, or only recently involved in mapping hiking routes.
> >
> > I think everyone agrees that the current state of the Wiki is not
> > optimal. But before significant changes are made these should be
> > discussed with the community that is actively mapping hiking routes. It
> > is pointless to change the wiki when the active contributors are not
> > aware of the changes or were not involved in these discussions.
> >
> > As far as I'm aware is the person that created the wiki entry has not
> > been actively involved in mapping hiking routes since at least a few
> > years ago.
> >
> > lg rene
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 at 00:51, Stefan Keller <sfkeller at gmail.com
> > <mailto:sfkeller at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     Dear René, lieber René
> >
> >     Bitte mach das nicht. Dem Edit ist einige Diskussion vorausgegangen
> >     u.a. mit denjenigen, die die Wiki-Seite erstellt haben.
> >     Pls. don't do that because the way currently hiking routes are
> >     tagged is broken.
> >     Let's talk in person in order to explain the reasons e.g. at next
> >     Zürcher OSM-Treffen? .
> >     Are you available this thursday or friday?
> >     See
> >
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Switzerland:Z%C3%BCrich/OSM-Treffen#130._OSM-Stammtisch_Juli_.28tbd..29_2021
> >     <
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Switzerland:Z%C3%BCrich/OSM-Treffen#130._OSM-Stammtisch_Juli_.28tbd..29_2021
> >
> >
> >     Liebe Grüsse, Stefan
> >
> >     Am Di., 13. Juli 2021 um 20:41 Uhr schrieb René Buffat
> >     <buffat at gmail.com <mailto:buffat at gmail.com>>:
> >     >
> >     > The recent changes of the wiki do not reflect how currently hiking
> >     routes are tagged and do not reflect the status of the discussion
> >     here on the mailing list. I will revert them at the end of this
> >     week, but I hope the author of the changes will do it earlier.
> >     >
> >     > lg rene
> >     >
> >     > On Sun, 11 Jul 2021 at 14:13, Stefan Keller <sfkeller at gmail.com
> >     <mailto:sfkeller at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >     >>
> >     >> Dear Michael, dear all
> >     >>
> >     >> Thanks, Michael, for your proposal and the changes in the Wiki
> [1].
> >     >> I just wanted to support these changes as you announced in this
> >     thread.
> >     >> We really need a base network for hiking which is routable!
> >     >> These changes don't exclude the many named routes mappers are
> >     eager to
> >     >> add (as relations) on top of that proper base network.
> >     >>
> >     >> ~Stefan
> >     >>
> >     >> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Switzerland/HikingNetwork
> >     <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Switzerland/HikingNetwork>
> >     >>
> >     >> Am Sa., 26. Juni 2021 um 11:32 Uhr schrieb michael spreng
> >     >> <mailinglist at osm.datendelphin.net
> >     <mailto:mailinglist at osm.datendelphin.net>>:
> >     >> >
> >     >> > Hallo Urs
> >     >> >
> >     >> > On 23.06.21 20:02, Flips wrote:
> >     >> > > Die Info zum Stammtisch habe ich jetzt zu spät gelesen.
> >     Vielleicht beim
> >     >> > > nächsten Mal.
> >     >> >
> >     >> > Also um 20:00 Uhr waren wir noch lange nicht fertig :)
> >     >> >
> >     >> > >
> >     >> > > Ich sehe die Routen nicht sls technische Routen, sondern als
> >     offizielle
> >     >> > > Routen. Warum sonst gibt es auf den Wegweisern Endziele mit
> >     Zeitangaben
> >     >> > > und von einigen Wegweiserstandorten aus Routen über
> >     verschiedene Wege
> >     >> > > zum selben Ziel. Dies wäre oftmals gar nicht nötig, um das
> >     ganze Netz
> >     >> > > abzubilden, da schon andere Routen die selben
> >     Streckenabschnitte abdecken.
> >     >> > >
> >     >> > > Wenn das Wanderwegnetz nur als Netz ohne Routen verstanden
> >     wird, dann
> >     >> > > sollten, wie ich es schon in einem vorherigen Mail
> >     beschrieben habe,
> >     >> > > einzig die lcn=yes zu den highway=* dazugetagt werden. In OSM
> >     sollten
> >     >> > > nur echte Routen als Relationen gemapt werden.
> >     >> > > Die from/to-tags werde ich künftig gerne berücksichtigen.
> >     >> >
> >     >> > Das würde technisch verhindern, dass eine way mehrmals vor
> >     kommt. Aber:
> >     >> > Es gibt einen starken Bruch zwischen Regionen, wo es keine
> >     "referenz"
> >     >> > (Name, Nummer, was auch immer) gibt für die Komponenten des
> >     Basisnetz
> >     >> > (CH), und Regionen, wo es das eben gibt. Sarah hat da am
> >     Stammtisch ein
> >     >> > Beispiel gezeigt für letzteres. Und man verliert die
> >     Möglichkeit, das
> >     >> > from/to zu tagen für den Unterhalt, was ein grosses Anliegen zu
> >     sein
> >     >> > scheint.
> >     >> >
> >     >> > Grüsse
> >     >> > Michael
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