[talk-ch] Changes to HikingNetwork wiki page

michael spreng mailinglist at osm.datendelphin.net
Wed Jul 14 14:41:39 CEST 2021


Hi René

You are setting a lot of pressure on me personally. I humbly started out
to tackle this topic as an all-round mapper. A kind of moderator. Having
mapped hiking routes as I encountered them since quite a few years. But
of course nothing compared to you.

Your hand hovering above the nuclear button of a revert is duly noted.

I also get the impression that the mailing list is now only turning
around each individual with roundabout statements. While the initial
discussion was fruitful and informative, I now get nothing of substance
that I could use to improve the situation further, especially on such
short notice.

I like the proposal to discuss this in a meeting, and encourage everyone
to participate

https://cloud.sosm.ch/index.php/apps/polls/s/Oi42HVw6gsR6L0mD
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Switzerland:Z%C3%BCrich/OSM-Treffen#130._OSM-Stammtisch_Juli_.28tbd..29_2021

Michael

On 14.07.21 06:31, René Buffat wrote:
> Dear Stefan
> 
> Can you elaborate on what exactly is broken that should have been fixed
> by the recent changes?
1: Name tag, 2: It was self contradicting for named guide posts
> 
> For me, it seems as the recent changes of the wiki are pushed by people
> not involved, or only recently involved in mapping hiking routes.
> 
> I think everyone agrees that the current state of the Wiki is not
> optimal. But before significant changes are made these should be
> discussed with the community that is actively mapping hiking routes. It
> is pointless to change the wiki when the active contributors are not
> aware of the changes or were not involved in these discussions.
> 
> As far as I'm aware is the person that created the wiki entry has not
> been actively involved in mapping hiking routes since at least a few
> years ago.
> 
> lg rene
>  
> 
> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 at 00:51, Stefan Keller <sfkeller at gmail.com
> <mailto:sfkeller at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Dear René, lieber René
> 
>     Bitte mach das nicht. Dem Edit ist einige Diskussion vorausgegangen
>     u.a. mit denjenigen, die die Wiki-Seite erstellt haben.
>     Pls. don't do that because the way currently hiking routes are
>     tagged is broken.
>     Let's talk in person in order to explain the reasons e.g. at next
>     Zürcher OSM-Treffen? .
>     Are you available this thursday or friday?
>     See
>     https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Switzerland:Z%C3%BCrich/OSM-Treffen#130._OSM-Stammtisch_Juli_.28tbd..29_2021
>     <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Switzerland:Z%C3%BCrich/OSM-Treffen#130._OSM-Stammtisch_Juli_.28tbd..29_2021>
> 
>     Liebe Grüsse, Stefan
> 
>     Am Di., 13. Juli 2021 um 20:41 Uhr schrieb René Buffat
>     <buffat at gmail.com <mailto:buffat at gmail.com>>:
>     >
>     > The recent changes of the wiki do not reflect how currently hiking
>     routes are tagged and do not reflect the status of the discussion
>     here on the mailing list. I will revert them at the end of this
>     week, but I hope the author of the changes will do it earlier.
>     >
>     > lg rene
>     >
>     > On Sun, 11 Jul 2021 at 14:13, Stefan Keller <sfkeller at gmail.com
>     <mailto:sfkeller at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     >>
>     >> Dear Michael, dear all
>     >>
>     >> Thanks, Michael, for your proposal and the changes in the Wiki [1].
>     >> I just wanted to support these changes as you announced in this
>     thread.
>     >> We really need a base network for hiking which is routable!
>     >> These changes don't exclude the many named routes mappers are
>     eager to
>     >> add (as relations) on top of that proper base network.
>     >>
>     >> ~Stefan
>     >>
>     >> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Switzerland/HikingNetwork
>     <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Switzerland/HikingNetwork>
>     >>
>     >> Am Sa., 26. Juni 2021 um 11:32 Uhr schrieb michael spreng
>     >> <mailinglist at osm.datendelphin.net
>     <mailto:mailinglist at osm.datendelphin.net>>:
>     >> >
>     >> > Hallo Urs
>     >> >
>     >> > On 23.06.21 20:02, Flips wrote:
>     >> > > Die Info zum Stammtisch habe ich jetzt zu spät gelesen.
>     Vielleicht beim
>     >> > > nächsten Mal.
>     >> >
>     >> > Also um 20:00 Uhr waren wir noch lange nicht fertig :)
>     >> >
>     >> > >
>     >> > > Ich sehe die Routen nicht sls technische Routen, sondern als
>     offizielle
>     >> > > Routen. Warum sonst gibt es auf den Wegweisern Endziele mit
>     Zeitangaben
>     >> > > und von einigen Wegweiserstandorten aus Routen über
>     verschiedene Wege
>     >> > > zum selben Ziel. Dies wäre oftmals gar nicht nötig, um das
>     ganze Netz
>     >> > > abzubilden, da schon andere Routen die selben
>     Streckenabschnitte abdecken.
>     >> > >
>     >> > > Wenn das Wanderwegnetz nur als Netz ohne Routen verstanden
>     wird, dann
>     >> > > sollten, wie ich es schon in einem vorherigen Mail
>     beschrieben habe,
>     >> > > einzig die lcn=yes zu den highway=* dazugetagt werden. In OSM
>     sollten
>     >> > > nur echte Routen als Relationen gemapt werden.
>     >> > > Die from/to-tags werde ich künftig gerne berücksichtigen.
>     >> >
>     >> > Das würde technisch verhindern, dass eine way mehrmals vor
>     kommt. Aber:
>     >> > Es gibt einen starken Bruch zwischen Regionen, wo es keine
>     "referenz"
>     >> > (Name, Nummer, was auch immer) gibt für die Komponenten des
>     Basisnetz
>     >> > (CH), und Regionen, wo es das eben gibt. Sarah hat da am
>     Stammtisch ein
>     >> > Beispiel gezeigt für letzteres. Und man verliert die
>     Möglichkeit, das
>     >> > from/to zu tagen für den Unterhalt, was ein grosses Anliegen zu
>     sein
>     >> > scheint.
>     >> >
>     >> > Grüsse
>     >> > Michael
>     >> > _______________________________________________
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