[talk-ch] Tagging of facilities for childcare in Switzerland

Toggenburger Lukas Lukas.Toggenburger at fhgr.ch
Tue Dec 28 15:29:24 CET 2021


Hey Simon

Thanks for taking the time and responding to my mail.

Regarding my proposition to deprecate amenity=childcare: I didn't want to appear harsh and don't have a strong opinion on which tags to use. My goal was and is to reach a consensus on how to tag the different kinds of facilities for childcare, so mappers and data consumers alike have a common understanding on what means what and have a clear distiction tagging-wise. This was made difficult due to several facts:

- Different meanings of the word "kindergarten"
- Unclear instructions on the wiki on what tags to use
- Rejected/abandoned proposals that are in use anyway

My ideal outcome of this exchange would be that we
- reach a common understanding of
  - what the most common scenarios in Switzerland are
  - how we tag them (which IMHO due to circumstances may differ from other countries)
- document the desired tagging as "the truth" for Switzerland on the wiki

Is my understanding correct that you propose to tag only case A as amenity=kindergarten and everything else as amenity=childcare? So that would be:

- A: (what I call "Kindergarten" in german): Part of the mandatory swiss school education for children of the age of approx. 4 to 6.
- B: ("Kita"): Where working parents can bring their children (approx. aged 0 to 4) during office hours (up to 5 full days a week). There is a definition at [2] that defines a Kita/use-case B as: Cares periodically for children aged 3 months until the age where compulsory school ends, on at least 5 half-days, offering 6 or more slots.
- C: ("Spielgruppe"): Where children go approx. once per week for only a few hours. The legal hurdles to operate such a facility are lower than those for use-case B, but seem to differ for each canton. Food/lunch is normally not offered.
- D: ("Hort"): Where children of age approx. 4+ go before/between/after mandatory school visits, so parents can work.
- E: ("Krabbelgruppe"): A place where parents together with their children (aged approx. 0 to 2) meet regularly (e.g. once per week) for a small number of hours.

- A: amenity=kindergarten, preschool=yes, operator:type=public, min_age=4, max_age=6, isced:level:2011=0
- B: amenity=childcare, nursery=yes, operator:type=private, min_age=3 months, breakfast=yes, lunch=yes
- C: amenity=childcare, operator:type=private, min_age=4
- D: amenity=childcare, after_school=yes, operator:type=private, min_age=4,
- E: ?

I'm looking forward to your input!

Lukas


________________________________________
Von: talk-ch <talk-ch-bounces at openstreetmap.ch> im Auftrag von Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch>
Gesendet: Dienstag, 28. Dezember 2021 11:10
An: talk-ch at openstreetmap.ch
Betreff: Re: [talk-ch] Tagging of facilities for childcare in Switzerland

Am 26.12.2021 um 16:51 schrieb Toggenburger Lukas:
> - Do you agree in deprecating and manually retagging amenity=childcare instances?

Nope.

As you probably know the mapping of childcare facilities has a rather
mixed, if not to say controversial history in OSM. But the infamous
original amenity=childcare proposal didn't fail because it doesn't make
sense to tag different things differently, but because of weaknesses in
the proposal itself. But outside of the specific proposal it the use of
the tagging has been largely unproblematic and in the same order of
magnitude as amenity=kindergarten in CH.

In any case of the German-speaking countries I know of, only Austria
-actually- uses "Kindergarten" (irl) for other things than pre-school
education and I would consider it too confusing to treat general
childcare and Kindergarten as the same thing here. Additionally in CH we
have a very clear delineation as all cantons provide at least one year
of Kindergarten and all with the exception GR require at least one year
of mandatory attendance. I can't see a rationale for mixing up the 1st
level of state provided education with everything else that has a
clearly different purpose.

The other reason to not mix things up is while we have a formal legal
definition of Kindergarten we don't really have it for anything else,
outside of permission being required to offer such services for children
under the age of 12 (there are some Cantons that regulate a bit more in
detail) . So really those clear cut categories don't exist outside of
whatever the facility uses in their name.

Simon



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